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Old Nov 30, 2009, 01:19 PM
Goats & Glocks Eat Anything
littleoak's Avatar
Houston, in the Great State of Texas
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Originally Posted by daoldguy View Post
I just ordered a new Motor for the Silhouette, I have been seeing these adds for "get a free motor" on RCG, I am not sure anyone ever has, so I just ordered one up. They have modeled them selves after the Axi motor, which I do like a lot, when they are affordable.

3D 450 3S 12A/60S DL22A 10x3.8

This is the "L" version of their 2212/26 which will deliver 3D power for a plane up to 15.87 ounces at a 60 gram motor weight. This "should" be a tad more umph then my Park 400 920kv for the same weight.

Upside is 45 dollars delivered, it comes with the Radial Mount and X brace.

We will see how this goes.
Do you have a link?
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Old Nov 30, 2009, 01:36 PM
BANG IT!!!
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United States, PA, Bellefonte
Joined Dec 2007
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Originally Posted by littleoak View Post
Do you have a link?
Dang... I meant to post it
http://montorc.com/x2212l34.aspx

I had to order the /34, the /26 would not be in stock until after Jan. Its a lower KV, swings the 11 inch prop, I got the last one of the L version. The original version of the 2212/26 <no L> is in stock.

I just got shipping notice, should have it in the next day or so. Love free shipping.
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Old Nov 30, 2009, 07:44 PM
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Xpress..'s Avatar
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Ok, went out and flew my 15.2oz Silhouette this afternoon.

Not suprisingly to me, it still flew like junk, even with it trimmed out perfectly upright and inverted. I think the main issue is it wants to wander when trimmed for level flight (like it moves sideto side with 0º right/down thrust), and the fact that there is hardly enough aileron throw for doing anything real 3D (post stall and on the throttle).

Rolling harriers were quite a handful.

I think it needs about 20º more control throw on the ailerons to really 3D. It does hover well, but torque rolls are a real PIA to do with the lack of aileron control throw.

I am going to modify it sometime this week, to get more control throw out of the ailerons (adding larger control horns, and moving the linkage out all the way on my 3D arms).

If I can't get it to fly well after about 5-10 flights, then I think i'm just going to strip it and give it to a friend, so it's not a wasted airframe.
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Old Nov 30, 2009, 07:58 PM
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DaOldGuy's Avatar
United States, PA, Bellefonte
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Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
Ok, went out and flew my 15.2oz Silhouette this afternoon.
Not suprisingly to me, it still flew like junk, even with it trimmed out perfectly upright and inverted.


Yes... I think you should just give it too your friend now and not bother with any further attempts. You truly have been disappointed in this plane since it was ordered.....the first time.

First thing that comes to mind with any 3D plane, low rates fair amount of throws, high rates, they should near slam fully extended. At least then you have some options until it is sorted out.

You got me on that side to side "wander" and I can only assume you mean with throttle changes the trim changes? Torque Roll issues would first indicate to much bite on the prop pitch/slowfly type blade possibly.

You seriously need to post a video of this thing in flight, I can not begin to image how this thing flys, by your discription.
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Old Nov 30, 2009, 08:02 PM
Goats & Glocks Eat Anything
littleoak's Avatar
Houston, in the Great State of Texas
Joined Jan 2009
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Shame, you should stick with it, cause most others here report otherwise. Scott Stoops reports it's a good flying plane (Fly RC Magazine Nov 09), so something must be awry. I don't have full aileron throw with stock setup and it will do 2-3 rolls per second when sped up just a little. Hover, harriers and rolling harriers, you need very little rudder input to keep a rolling harrier going, true you can't go dead slow, but with just a little speed, and more skill than I you could roll harriers till a spec in the distance. I can torque roll either with motor torque or the anti motor with some throttle pulsing, I just am not good enough to hold it belly towards me, I keep getting confused, but I either punch out or rudder over and turn back to level flight and go for it again. KE for ever, KE loops, flat rudder only turns at full throttle (lots of fun)and nice slow pattern flying moves, cuban's, avalanche loops (up, top, down line) etc.... Flat spins are better now I have CG a little further back, both upright and inverted.

If I get chance I'll try to post some video......

Don't give up on the old girl yet!
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Old Nov 30, 2009, 09:05 PM
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United States, PA, Bellefonte
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Originally Posted by littleoak View Post
Shame, you should stick with it, cause most others here report otherwise. Scott Stoops reports it's a good flying plane (Fly RC Magazine Nov 09), so something must be awry.
I just bought one of Scotts books, he has a great bit of insight to flight.

I have flown many of planes with single wings and not been real happy with them....Until this one, and it is better behaved then my BiPlane. This plane turely flys like it is on rails.
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Old Nov 30, 2009, 10:11 PM
Old skool speed freak!
vinmech's Avatar
Napa, Ca
Joined May 2004
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Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
Ok, went out and flew my 15.2oz Silhouette this afternoon.

Not suprisingly to me, it still flew like junk, even with it trimmed out perfectly upright and inverted. I think the main issue is it wants to wander when trimmed for level flight (like it moves sideto side with 0º right/down thrust), and the fact that there is hardly enough aileron throw for doing anything real 3D (post stall and on the throttle).

Rolling harriers were quite a handful.

I think it needs about 20º more control throw on the ailerons to really 3D. It does hover well, but torque rolls are a real PIA to do with the lack of aileron control throw.

I am going to modify it sometime this week, to get more control throw out of the ailerons (adding larger control horns, and moving the linkage out all the way on my 3D arms).

If I can't get it to fly well after about 5-10 flights, then I think i'm just going to strip it and give it to a friend, so it's not a wasted airframe.

Dubro makes the perfect control horns to get rid of the horrible wood horns and get max throws, They are # 936. And while your at it, get some extra long servo horns as well for whichever brand servos you have.

Ailerons do have their limits due to design, but max throw is about 45 degrees which is plenty in my opinion.
I can get darn near 90 degrees up and down on elevator with these horns.
The rudder is the only wood horn I left on the plane, you can get max throws with it, and if you lose it, you can still land it in one piece!

To me, this plane flys more like a ultra light balsa plane, with a very responsive rudder!
Shift CG back about 1/4 to 1/2 inch and try yourhigh alpha rolling harriers with the higher throws, but lay off the rudder, just think about it, but don't actually use it! Works for me.

I no pro at it, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

Mikeeee,

May you have many successful flights
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Old Nov 30, 2009, 10:44 PM
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I'm not giving up on it untill I get her trimmed as much as possible. And no, I believe the wandering to be because of the design (or maybee it was the wind- either way, i've never had a foamy wander like that before in or out of the wind), not because of anything I've done.

I have Hitecs XL 3D arms on my HS55s, and they provide plenty of control throw. I have some tweaking to do (going to flip the Z-bend around in the plywood horn, and then move the linkage out farther on the arm).

Also, my CG is perfect, it flies perfeclty upright and inverted. However, it has a tendency to roll outward with right rudder turns. Also, it's got coupling towards the canopy on KE. Once again, still got tweaking to do. Need to wait for the wind to go down to get it locked in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daoldguy
You seriously need to post a video of this thing in flight, I can not begin to image how this thing flys, by your discription.
You won't believe me, because I'll make it look good

I also need more power. It can just hover (and it does hover well) right now. Need to go back to an outrunner setup (HC2808-0980 or around 160 watts) on APC10x4.7SF. That also means I can go back down to my lighter 1000 lipos (so I shouldn't gain (or lose) any weight)
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Old Nov 30, 2009, 11:01 PM
BANG IT!!!
DaOldGuy's Avatar
United States, PA, Bellefonte
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Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
I have Hitecs XL 3D arms on my HS55s, and they provide plenty of control throw. I have some tweaking to do (going to flip the Z-bend around in the plywood horn, and then move the linkage out farther on the arm).
You sparked a memory, with the Long Futaba arms i have, it caused the Z bend to bind in the plywood horn at first, due to the angle it caused for the rudder rod, it would "stick" and not always center. This could cause it to seem to wander since it hangs now and then just a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
You won't believe me, because I'll make it look good
Well then it is no different then the current, please lets give it a shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
I also need more power. It can just hover (and it does hover well) right now. Need to go back to an outrunner setup (HC2808-0980 or around 160 watts) on APC10x4.7SF. That also means I can go back down to my lighter 1000 lipos (so I shouldn't gain (or lose) any weight)
A couple things to note here, if you are saying you are full throttle to hover, torque roll is bound to be a side affect. Sounds like your outrunner upgrade may fix that.

If you are running a lipo larger then a 3S1000 with this set up, I am not sure how 15.2 ounces is even possible, scale may be telling you a fib.

Falling on her back in a hover is very odd unless the CG is aft a bit too much, which could also explain some of the things you have reported.

Trimming a light foamy in the wind is much like herding cats.
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Old Nov 30, 2009, 11:12 PM
Goats & Glocks Eat Anything
littleoak's Avatar
Houston, in the Great State of Texas
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Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
Also, it's got coupling towards the canopy on KE.
Agreed - there is a little KE coupling towards canopy, I just fly knife edge circles! or I add a touch of down elevator to keep her straight.
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Old Nov 30, 2009, 11:29 PM
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Xpress..'s Avatar
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^^It hovers fine, and I'm using 3S 1320 lipos. The scale is also accurate as well, testing it with 2 other digital scales that measured exactly the same thing.

And i'm comfortable with torque rolling- it doesn't like to torque roll well, and I give it the correct inputs to come back into the hover, but it winds up flopping onto it's side (yes, giving it rudder input as well) and nothing can bring it back into the hover. It is very stable in the non torque rolling hover though

Oh, and for me, trimming a foamy in the wind isn't trouble at all- I just like to do it with no wind

(I have 5 years experience trimming 3D planes- all sorts )

^Mine likes to roll to the canopy, but it holds good lines. Might give it a mix to help out with everything.
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Old Dec 01, 2009, 12:38 AM
Pilon_1
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Kingsburg CA
Joined Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
Ok, went out and flew my 15.2oz Silhouette this afternoon.

Not suprisingly to me, it still flew like junk, even with it trimmed out perfectly upright and inverted. I think the main issue is it wants to wander when trimmed for level flight (like it moves sideto side with 0º right/down thrust), and the fact that there is hardly enough aileron throw for doing anything real 3D (post stall and on the throttle).

Rolling harriers were quite a handful.

I think it needs about 20º more control throw on the ailerons to really 3D. It does hover well, but torque rolls are a real PIA to do with the lack of aileron control throw.

I am going to modify it sometime this week, to get more control throw out of the ailerons (adding larger control horns, and moving the linkage out all the way on my 3D arms).

If I can't get it to fly well after about 5-10 flights, then I think i'm just going to strip it and give it to a friend, so it's not a wasted airframe.
There has to be somthing wrong! Mine is so suprisingly stable, I had to get used to it flying so slow and not pitching over or stalling. This is mt first 3D/Sport electric, I am used to my 40 nitro powered low stik, and hammer patern ship. The Silhouette has given me more confidence in slow flying aerobatic aircraft that I thought it would. Now I want to build somthing to thrash and not hurt to learn to fly my Siloh to its limit, or my limits! I flew it yesterday in quite a wind and it realy suprised me how stable it was, and had plenty of controle to get me out of any trouble I probably wasn't in anyway! Before you junk it out, double check everything,CG, wing alignment, stab alignment, servos, anything. There has to be somthing that is wrong with yours.
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Old Dec 01, 2009, 01:38 AM
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Xpress..'s Avatar
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There has to be somthing wrong! Mine is so suprisingly stable, I had to get used to it flying so slow and not pitching over or stalling. This is mt first 3D/Sport electric, I am used to my 40 nitro powered low stik, and hammer patern ship. The Silhouette has given me more confidence in slow flying aerobatic aircraft that I thought it would. Now I want to build somthing to thrash and not hurt to learn to fly my Siloh to its limit, or my limits! I flew it yesterday in quite a wind and it realy suprised me how stable it was, and had plenty of controle to get me out of any trouble I probably wasn't in anyway! Before you junk it out, double check everything,CG, wing alignment, stab alignment, servos, anything. There has to be somthing that is wrong with yours.
I definately don't think it's anything I have done, I have followed the manual to the decimal point (yes, I read it prior to assembly, and yes i double check). Everything is squared up, and centered.

It might be because i'm used to profile 3D foamies, that are fairly easy to setup, and rock right away..
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Old Dec 02, 2009, 05:34 PM
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DaOldGuy's Avatar
United States, PA, Bellefonte
Joined Dec 2007
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Pulso Motor

New Motor cames today.


All nice and vacumm sealed, looks like an Axi packaging.

Opened the box, parts baggy >Zip Lock> was open. Did a parts count, one of the 4 X mount screws not included. Ok..It happens

Took all parts to the Digital Automotive Paint mixing scale, very accurate, up to 5000 grams and as little as .1 <tenth> of a gram.

Motor 61.7 Grams
With parts add <minus missing screw> 71.5 Grams

Radial Mount was another issues upon inspection.
It seems the motor "nut" was threaded at an angle. The more amazing part, it still works, but crooked to one side, my opinion, sort of dangerous.

The reseller will be notified, great guy by the way, very helpful, even sent a free sample item along. However, the reflection would be negative towards the manufacturer.

See pics.

Ron
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Old Dec 02, 2009, 06:06 PM
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Xpress..'s Avatar
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Well, doesn't look like you'll be using the radial mount. Looks like you'll have t push the shaft through the motor to the other side

Oh, I have modded my ailerons, and am getting MAX throws out of them It's about double what it was before, and it was pretty easy to do.

Simple steps I followed:

1. Remove pushrod from servo horn (if you used z-bends, then remove the horn then remove it from the pushrod).

2. Remove pushrod from plywood control horn.

3. Flip pushrod around, so that the long part of the pushrod (that runs to the servo) is on the outside of the control horn (point out from the fuse), and then put it into the TOP hole on the plywood control horns.

4. Move easy link to outtermost hole in the 3D XL arm.

5. Re-assemble everything.

Tada.
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