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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
Stack, Dave
Guest
n/a Posts
[RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

To all those who attended; would anyone care to describe the landing task
(asuming it's not proprietary information of course) in some degree of
detail?. Always looking to add a dose of "newness" to club contests here in
Tidewater, VA. I went to the CASL web page, but all it says regarding the
task is "To be announced"

Thank you for the insight

R/
Dave Stack

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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
Bill Malvey
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

On 2/5/03 3:59, "Stack, Dave" <dave.stack@eds.com> wrote:

> To all those who attended; would anyone care to describe the landing task



Absurd


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill Malvey




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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
Albert Wedworth
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

Yea!
6 foot circle = 25 points with a 2 foot circle off to the right = 50 points
with a 1 foot circle behind that = 75 points then a 2 inch circle way off
left about 1 inch off the edge of the big circle = 100 points
Just picture in your mind a big circle with three decreeing smaller circles
smaller circles inside of that
The Bag Lady
www.thebagladyal.com
bagladyal@earthlink.net
888-457-1550
Albert E. Wedworth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Malvey" <scatpilot@cox.net>
To: <soaring@airage.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks


> On 2/5/03 3:59, "Stack, Dave" <dave.stack@eds.com> wrote:
>
> > To all those who attended; would anyone care to describe the landing

task
>
>
> Absurd
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Bill Malvey
>
>
>
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"

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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
Gordon Jennings
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

Dave,

The landing task looked like an 8-foot petri dish with 3 different kinds of
fungus growing in it. In the upper right "corner" there was a 3 foot
diameter patch of what looked to be athlete's foot that was worth 50
points. In the lower right corner was a 2-foot growth of what may have
been trench mouth, worth 75 points. In the lower left corner was an
itty-bitty circle, well under a foot in diameter, that was most certainly
ergot. It was worth 100 points. Anywhere in the big circle but out of the
smaller circles was worth 25 points.

As far as I know, nobody got the 100. Upwind (which happened about 5% of
the contest) the 50 and 75 were doable, although judging the slide in that
cement with occasional soft spots that the AZ folks call turf was iffy.
Downwind or crosswind, which was all of the rest of the time, you just
slammed 'er in there and hoped the skeg would keep you out of the safety
fence.

In terms of "newness" you have to decide if you are trying to measure skill
or just have some fun and mix things up. For measuring skill, a tape
landing is pretty good. For causing pain and mixing things up, go for a
line of 2 foot square boxes with 1 foot gap between them. Make the gaps
zero points and the boxes 10 - 30 - 50 - 30 - 10. They'll hate you, but in
a good way.

Gordon Jennings,
Proof positive that if you go to enough contests and use a skeg, you too
can win a 2-day...

At 05:59 AM 2/5/2003 -0600, Stack, Dave wrote:
>To all those who attended; would anyone care to describe the landing task
>(asuming it's not proprietary information of course) in some degree of
>detail?. Always looking to add a dose of "newness" to club contests here in
>Tidewater, VA. I went to the CASL web page, but all it says regarding the
>task is "To be announced"
>
>Thank you for the insight
>
>R/
>Dave Stack
>
>RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"

and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that
subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with
MIME turned off.
>

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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
Darrellz
Guest
n/a Posts
RE: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

Congrats Gordon that's the way to stick those landings!! And by the results
not bad flying either.
Great Job!

DZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Jennings [mailto:GoMo@thegrid.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 6:53 PM
To: Stack, Dave
Cc: 'soaring@airage.com'
Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks


Dave,

The landing task looked like an 8-foot petri dish with 3 different kinds of
fungus growing in it. In the upper right "corner" there was a 3 foot
diameter patch of what looked to be athlete's foot that was worth 50
points. In the lower right corner was a 2-foot growth of what may have
been trench mouth, worth 75 points. In the lower left corner was an
itty-bitty circle, well under a foot in diameter, that was most certainly
ergot. It was worth 100 points. Anywhere in the big circle but out of the
smaller circles was worth 25 points.

As far as I know, nobody got the 100. Upwind (which happened about 5% of
the contest) the 50 and 75 were doable, although judging the slide in that
cement with occasional soft spots that the AZ folks call turf was iffy.
Downwind or crosswind, which was all of the rest of the time, you just
slammed 'er in there and hoped the skeg would keep you out of the safety
fence.

In terms of "newness" you have to decide if you are trying to measure skill
or just have some fun and mix things up. For measuring skill, a tape
landing is pretty good. For causing pain and mixing things up, go for a
line of 2 foot square boxes with 1 foot gap between them. Make the gaps
zero points and the boxes 10 - 30 - 50 - 30 - 10. They'll hate you, but in
a good way.

Gordon Jennings,
Proof positive that if you go to enough contests and use a skeg, you too
can win a 2-day...

At 05:59 AM 2/5/2003 -0600, Stack, Dave wrote:
>To all those who attended; would anyone care to describe the landing task
>(asuming it's not proprietary information of course) in some degree of
>detail?. Always looking to add a dose of "newness" to club contests here

in
>Tidewater, VA. I went to the CASL web page, but all it says regarding the
>task is "To be announced"
>
>Thank you for the insight
>
>R/
>Dave Stack
>
>RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"

and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that
subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with
MIME turned off.
>

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"unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that
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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
FRED SAGE
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

Dave;

I don't think you'd want to include this landing task in a local club contest. First you'd need to make stencils or patterns so each landing area would be identical. Then you'd need to carefully outline the patterns in as many landing areas as needed. CASL used six but a typical club contest could get by with fewer (three or four). Finally you'd need to spend a few hours filling in the various areas with $20 to $30 worth of spray paint. From a practical standpoint, I don't know why CASL deviated from the 100" landing tape they used last year. That type of landing task rewards skill instead of luck and the tapes could have easily have been reoriented when the wind blew through hard out of the West on Sunday morning. Since strong wind shifts are typical in the desert in February, it would have been handy to have the ability to shift landing directions if warranted. I know the few dozen pilots that damaged their gliders while trying to land in the severe downwind/crosswind conditions would have appreciated that accommodation.

The type of landing task that was used at the SWC is really just a gimmick to try and keep TD contests interesting, but there are consequences for the variety.

Fred

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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
WARNER GARTH
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

> To all those who attended; would anyone care to describe the landing task


Seriously Downwind

G
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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
Stuart Hall
Guest
n/a Posts
RE: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

What is it about a circle inscribed on the ground made the landings so
downwind/crosswind specific?

BTW, agree about the gimmick comments but isn't the whole idea of RC
sailplane flying to make it fun? Maybe mix it up a little bit? Perhaps
next time some folks will pack a Highlander foamie if the risk for damaging
a moldie is too great from landing inside circles!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: FRED SAGE [mailto:fsage1@utm.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:30 AM
> To: Stack, Dave; soaring@airage.com
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks
> That
> type of landing task rewards skill instead of luck and the tapes
> could have easily have been reoriented when the wind blew through
> hard out of the West on Sunday morning. Since strong wind shifts
> are typical in the desert in February, it would have been handy
> to have the ability to shift landing directions if warranted. I
> know the few dozen pilots that damaged their gliders while trying
> to land in the severe downwind/crosswind conditions would have
> appreciated that accommodation.


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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
Aerofoam
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

I will post some aerial photos of the LZ tomorrow.(if they turn out!)

Mark Mech
www.aerofoam.com


> > To all those who attended; would anyone care to describe the landing

task

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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
Howard Mark
Guest
n/a Posts
RE: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

Bill,

You are not the only person to use that exact word to describe the task.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Malvey [mailto:scatpilot@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:29 PM
To: 'soaring@airage.com'
Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks


On 2/5/03 3:59, "Stack, Dave" <dave.stack@eds.com> wrote:

> To all those who attended; would anyone care to describe the landing task



Absurd


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill Malvey




RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and
"unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that
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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
John Erickson
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

>From the department of statistical analysis...

There were 700 landings attempted at the SWC.

483 had a zero
135 had a 25
62 had a 50
20 had a 75
0 had (or tried) a 100

A petri dish has a side to it; it's obvious that we could have used that.

Personally I enjoyed watching people throw flaps downwind and have the same
effect of a boat throwing out the spinnaker. The plane would begin to speed
up.

Mike Reagan pointed out something to me that I didn't figure out till the
5th round. Put your plane down on the time. Due to the triathalon scoring
the penalty on either side of the target time is extreme. If you are off by
5 seconds, that is 35 points.

I was off by a few seconds compensating for the downwind. Attempting a
landing at that point isn't really worth it! If you had just put your plane
down anywhere on the field, on the buzzer, and you made your time, you would
have been in 10th place.

JE
--
Erickson Architects
John R. Erickson, AIA


> From: Gordon Jennings <GoMo@thegrid.net>
> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:53:23 -0800
> To: "Stack, Dave" <dave.stack@eds.com>
> Cc: "'soaring@airage.com'" <soaring@airage.com>
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks
>
> Dave,
>
> The landing task looked like an 8-foot petri dish with 3 different kinds of
> fungus growing in it. In the upper right "corner" there was a 3 foot
> diameter patch of what looked to be athlete's foot that was worth 50
> points. In the lower right corner was a 2-foot growth of what may have
> been trench mouth, worth 75 points. In the lower left corner was an
> itty-bitty circle, well under a foot in diameter, that was most certainly
> ergot. It was worth 100 points. Anywhere in the big circle but out of the
> smaller circles was worth 25 points.
>
> As far as I know, nobody got the 100. Upwind (which happened about 5% of
> the contest) the 50 and 75 were doable, although judging the slide in that
> cement with occasional soft spots that the AZ folks call turf was iffy.
> Downwind or crosswind, which was all of the rest of the time, you just
> slammed 'er in there and hoped the skeg would keep you out of the safety
> fence.
>


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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
David Zucker
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

John,

If the flaps being deployed caused a spinnaker effect wouldn't the wind be
traveling fast enough to be flowing backwards across the wing thus making
your glider drop from the sky like a rock. Flaps fully deployed should allow
your glider to fly at it's slowest possible airspeed regardless of wind
direction which is also the slowest possible ground speed for downwind
landings.

Zucker



----- Original Message -----
From: "John Erickson" <jrerickson@earthlink.net>
To: "Gordon Jennings" <GoMo@thegrid.net>; "Stack, Dave" <dave.stack@eds.com>
Cc: "Soaring List" <soaring@airage.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks


> >From the department of statistical analysis...

>
> There were 700 landings attempted at the SWC.
>
> 483 had a zero
> 135 had a 25
> 62 had a 50
> 20 had a 75
> 0 had (or tried) a 100
>
> A petri dish has a side to it; it's obvious that we could have used that.
>
> Personally I enjoyed watching people throw flaps downwind and have the

same
> effect of a boat throwing out the spinnaker. The plane would begin to

speed
> up.
>
> Mike Reagan pointed out something to me that I didn't figure out till the
> 5th round. Put your plane down on the time. Due to the triathalon scoring
> the penalty on either side of the target time is extreme. If you are off

by
> 5 seconds, that is 35 points.
>
> I was off by a few seconds compensating for the downwind. Attempting a
> landing at that point isn't really worth it! If you had just put your

plane
> down anywhere on the field, on the buzzer, and you made your time, you

would
> have been in 10th place.
>
> JE
> --
> Erickson Architects
> John R. Erickson, AIA
>
>
> > From: Gordon Jennings <GoMo@thegrid.net>
> > Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:53:23 -0800
> > To: "Stack, Dave" <dave.stack@eds.com>
> > Cc: "'soaring@airage.com'" <soaring@airage.com>
> > Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > The landing task looked like an 8-foot petri dish with 3 different kinds

of
> > fungus growing in it. In the upper right "corner" there was a 3 foot
> > diameter patch of what looked to be athlete's foot that was worth 50
> > points. In the lower right corner was a 2-foot growth of what may have
> > been trench mouth, worth 75 points. In the lower left corner was an
> > itty-bitty circle, well under a foot in diameter, that was most

certainly
> > ergot. It was worth 100 points. Anywhere in the big circle but out of

the
> > smaller circles was worth 25 points.
> >
> > As far as I know, nobody got the 100. Upwind (which happened about 5%

of
> > the contest) the 50 and 75 were doable, although judging the slide in

that
> > cement with occasional soft spots that the AZ folks call turf was iffy.
> > Downwind or crosswind, which was all of the rest of the time, you just
> > slammed 'er in there and hoped the skeg would keep you out of the safety
> > fence.
> >

>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"

and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that
subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with
MIME turned off.
>


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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
John Erickson
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

You would think, David. I was just watching what was happening. It's
probably because when the plane was nose down there was more surface area
exposed to the wind behind and the effect was that it sped up (or looked
like it).

I saw 5 planes in a row flip in the landing area.

JE
--
Erickson Architects
John R. Erickson, AIA


> From: "David Zucker" <dzucker@charter.net>
> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:31:59 -0800
> To: "John Erickson" <jrerickson@earthlink.net>, "Gordon Jennings"
> <GoMo@thegrid.net>, "Stack, Dave" <dave.stack@eds.com>
> Cc: "Soaring List" <soaring@airage.com>
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks
>
> John,
>
> If the flaps being deployed caused a spinnaker effect wouldn't the wind be
> traveling fast enough to be flowing backwards across the wing thus making
> your glider drop from the sky like a rock. Flaps fully deployed should allow
> your glider to fly at it's slowest possible airspeed regardless of wind
> direction which is also the slowest possible ground speed for downwind
> landings.
>
> Zucker
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Erickson" <jrerickson@earthlink.net>
> To: "Gordon Jennings" <GoMo@thegrid.net>; "Stack, Dave" <dave.stack@eds.com>
> Cc: "Soaring List" <soaring@airage.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks
>
>
>>> From the department of statistical analysis...

>>
>> There were 700 landings attempted at the SWC.
>>
>> 483 had a zero
>> 135 had a 25
>> 62 had a 50
>> 20 had a 75
>> 0 had (or tried) a 100
>>
>> A petri dish has a side to it; it's obvious that we could have used that.
>>
>> Personally I enjoyed watching people throw flaps downwind and have the

> same
>> effect of a boat throwing out the spinnaker. The plane would begin to

> speed
>> up.
>>
>> Mike Reagan pointed out something to me that I didn't figure out till the
>> 5th round. Put your plane down on the time. Due to the triathalon scoring
>> the penalty on either side of the target time is extreme. If you are off

> by
>> 5 seconds, that is 35 points.
>>
>> I was off by a few seconds compensating for the downwind. Attempting a
>> landing at that point isn't really worth it! If you had just put your

> plane
>> down anywhere on the field, on the buzzer, and you made your time, you

> would
>> have been in 10th place.
>>
>> JE
>> --
>> Erickson Architects
>> John R. Erickson, AIA
>>
>>
>>> From: Gordon Jennings <GoMo@thegrid.net>
>>> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:53:23 -0800
>>> To: "Stack, Dave" <dave.stack@eds.com>
>>> Cc: "'soaring@airage.com'" <soaring@airage.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> The landing task looked like an 8-foot petri dish with 3 different kinds

> of
>>> fungus growing in it. In the upper right "corner" there was a 3 foot
>>> diameter patch of what looked to be athlete's foot that was worth 50
>>> points. In the lower right corner was a 2-foot growth of what may have
>>> been trench mouth, worth 75 points. In the lower left corner was an
>>> itty-bitty circle, well under a foot in diameter, that was most

> certainly
>>> ergot. It was worth 100 points. Anywhere in the big circle but out of

> the
>>> smaller circles was worth 25 points.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, nobody got the 100. Upwind (which happened about 5%

> of
>>> the contest) the 50 and 75 were doable, although judging the slide in

> that
>>> cement with occasional soft spots that the AZ folks call turf was iffy.
>>> Downwind or crosswind, which was all of the rest of the time, you just
>>> slammed 'er in there and hoped the skeg would keep you out of the safety
>>> fence.
>>>

>>
>> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"

> and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that
> subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with
> MIME turned off.
>>

>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and
> "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that
> subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME
> turned off.


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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
Chuck Anderson
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

At 08:55 AM 2/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Mike Reagan pointed out something to me that I didn't figure out till the
>5th round. Put your plane down on the time. Due to the triathalon scoring
>the penalty on either side of the target time is extreme. If you are off by
>5 seconds, that is 35 points.
>
>I was off by a few seconds compensating for the downwind. Attempting a
>landing at that point isn't really worth it! If you had just put your plane
>down anywhere on the field, on the buzzer, and you made your time, you would
>have been in 10th place.
>
>JE
>--
>Erickson Architects
>John R. Erickson, AIA


Exactly. That is the intent of Triathalon. It's a thinking man's event.
Trouble is that modern sailplanes with super strong winches take some of
the challange out of Triathalon. Although not specifically mentioned in
the task rules, the original author intended that the L4 landing task be
used so that the contestant must control lateral and longitudinal distance
as well as time for maximum score, even if conditions prevented achieving
10 minutes. Triathalon also needs to have many rounds in order to achieve
it's goal.

Chuck Anderson
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Old Apr 01, 2003, 12:03 AM
Bob Vixie
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks

I realized after the second round that the landing task was not worth it
(for me). After missing the time by 10 seconds getting a 50 landing,
looking up the score and realizing I just lost 40 points. The rest of the
rounds I just landed out in the field on time. That put me in 22rd place
over all and 1st in RES.

It was really a biathalon. In tri, the landing task is 200 points, making
it well worth hitting. I wasn't about to risk plane, zero for the round
(over the fence), or anything else by trying to approach the landing zone.

I realize that the landing scores seperated the top 10 pilots, and they
needed to hit landing, but I just wasn't in that league. I'm very happy
with my results.

Oh yes, and the raffle was a blast too.....

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Anderson" <canders@mail.edge.net>
To: "John Erickson" <jrerickson@earthlink.net>
Cc: <soaring@airage.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] SWC Results - Landing Tasks


> At 08:55 AM 2/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >Mike Reagan pointed out something to me that I didn't figure out till the
> >5th round. Put your plane down on the time. Due to the triathalon

scoring
> >the penalty on either side of the target time is extreme. If you are off

by
> >5 seconds, that is 35 points.
> >
> >I was off by a few seconds compensating for the downwind. Attempting a
> >landing at that point isn't really worth it! If you had just put your

plane
> >down anywhere on the field, on the buzzer, and you made your time, you

would
> >have been in 10th place.
> >
> >JE
> >--
> >Erickson Architects
> >John R. Erickson, AIA

>
> Exactly. That is the intent of Triathalon. It's a thinking man's event.
> Trouble is that modern sailplanes with super strong winches take some of
> the challange out of Triathalon. Although not specifically mentioned in
> the task rules, the original author intended that the L4 landing task be
> used so that the contestant must control lateral and longitudinal distance
> as well as time for maximum score, even if conditions prevented achieving
> 10 minutes. Triathalon also needs to have many rounds in order to achieve
> it's goal.
>
> Chuck Anderson



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