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Old Jan 15, 2012, 12:37 PM
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hi

4.5-5oz = 6mm epp

bye
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 05:37 AM
Flippin Multirotors
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hi get real i am building a 48 in edge with owens pink what do you use for wing spar and the best glue for the foam..... thanks
I used 3/4'' square stock from the local home center.. its about a buck per piece,has decent strength and rigidity for 3s set ups in 48'' wingspan planes but it does flex during really high g stuff. For glue i have been using gorilla glue but beacon foam tac might work well.. i havent used it but its suppose to bond fine without eating the foam,it should be a better alternative since it sets up quicker and doesn't expand so it should make cleaner glue joints and make for a quicker build.

Smiley007,no plans for the raptor yet.. maybe in the future.
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 06:24 PM
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48

hi geat real do you think a emax 2815 450watt 1100 kv motor would be good for a 48 in type plane?
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Old Jan 17, 2012, 01:16 AM
Flippin Multirotors
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That should have plenty of power for a 48'' span foamie,the torque 2818 is around 400 watts on 3s with a 13x6.5 and thats the set up i flew in the yakzilla foamie.
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Old Jan 17, 2012, 01:23 AM
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48 foamie

hi on that motor they call for a apc 10 5e prop as a good all around prop
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 11:39 PM
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Servo progress report?

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Originally Posted by Get Real View Post
Got a couple flights in with the dsm 44s,there quick and have good torque. Will get some more flights in with them,gear slop is a bit more than the futabas.
Great thread.

Any more news to report on the dsm 44s? Getting any more play over time? Singing?

I have a 32 in EPP foamy, now I need to learn some tricks

thanks
M
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 02:57 AM
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I have about 30 or more flights on the first set of 3 dsm44s i ordered(have a few flights on a second set i ordered recently as well). Wear hasn't been to bad,for a epp 3d plane i think youll like them,really depends on what you've flown in the past,way faster than hxt's or s75's etc with plenty of torque. If you've flown futaba 3114's you'll notice the gear play a bit in the air as well as in the linkage set up on a plane on the ground. If they came with nylon gears and had similar precise gears to the futabas i probably would use them in everything. There very quick,have lots of torque,are lighter than other servos in there torque class as well. Price in very reasonable as well for there speed,torque and weight. There considerably smaller in case size than most of the 6-7g servos out there and most kits have servo slots sized for slightly larger servos and you will have to shim them slightly. Hope that helps
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 09:37 AM
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Thanks for the quick response. No surprises, that is good.
So the decision is down to play in metal gears vs. replacing stripped servos.
Hmmmm.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 01:36 PM
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hi get real i am building a 48 in edge with owens pink what do you use for wing spar and the best glue for the foam..... thanks
I will try to offer some suggestions that may be helpful. Most of the 1/2" foam types sold as insulation board for home use will glue together well with a long list of water resistant, or water proof glues, but are slow to "dry" if the glue is water based. In RC Groups many use epoxy, and others prefer the foaming glues like the Gorilla brand, and many like the speed of construction using hot glue. Those glue options are some of the better glues for foam, but epoxy can get expensive and the foaming glue has to be managed to keep it's expanding habit/reaction under control. The key to both types is learning how to apply only as much as needed, especially with the foaming glues, and apply adequate pressure until cured. In the case of epoxy, too many new builders make the mistake of trying to use a 6 minute epoxy when their construction skills require a 15 minute, or 30 minute cure cycle. It is often better to use a cure cycle rating that give you 10 minutes or more working time than you believe is necessary. Also, buy some freezer rated Ziploc bags (thicker plastic) and put some clean sand in them to use as weights, or pressure devices. Too often there is no way to use a clamping device and if you happen to drop the sandbag onto the foam, there is a good chance no damage will result like is common with iron plate, brick, stone, or lead weights.

The foaming glues are excellent with all sorts of foam board types, but the key to not making a mess is learning how to use only enough on one piece to form a proper bond to the other. Water is sprayed on the other piece as a mist and a chemical reaction takes place, which makes the bond. More often than not, all you need on the glued part is enough to see a wetness on the surface, but most will think there isn't enough glue applied. It is important to remember when the water reaction takes place the expanding glue will try to double, or even triple in tiny foaming bubbles. The excess foamed glue has to go somewhere, and that often means well beyond the joint. If you don't mind baby-setting the foaming glue, you can use a piece of paper towel, Q-tip, toilet paper, and many other disposable options to wipe-up, or remove the excess glue with rubbing alcohol as it expands. The trick is to not over saturate the wiping tool with alcohol and use medium pressure as you remove the excess glue every 6-9 minutes. You have to continue to monitor the expanding reaction of the glue, or you will soon discover the glue has a nasty habit of exceeding your desires of a neatly glued joint. In time you will learn just how little glue is required for a good bond and a 4-6 oz. bottle will last a long time.

Another key to using the expanding glues successfully is to realize the foaming action needs to be completed under pressure, and a small amount of pressure is all we normally need when working with foam board. We don't want to apply too much pressure to the foam, or it will show some sort of damage. That is why making plastic sandbags is a popular solution. If you feel the need to use clamps, take care to use clamps that don't have strong springs, or apply too much ratchet pressure. Also try to place the pressure device so it is easier to work around it if a bit of wipe-up is needed to keep the expanding glue joint neat. As a side note - the reason water based glues are not popular with foam is because the water cannot easily escape while encased, or surrounded by a foam surface. Foam holds in moisture, and traps it, so the water based glues tend to not "dry" as they need to within a reasonable time period, and the bond tends to be weak since the glue is still "green". That is another way to say the glue hasn't cured yet, or dried out as needed to form a strong bond. The water based glues can be used with wood that hasn't been sealed with a plastic material, varnish, or epoxy, but if foam is on the other side of the bond, it will take many days for the glue to "dry". I hope I haven't said too much, or bored too many experienced builders.
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Old Jan 27, 2012, 08:04 PM
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Hi Get Real,

Just checking in to see how things are going. I have been doing a lot of nitro sport/pattern flying and am building a couple of vintage balsa pattern ships, BUT, we still occasionally fly the GRX 34 EPP and 42's blue foam board ships and have a ball with them. One question though, for the best 3D, how far back do you have the CG? I still have some problems hovering, although, I can say I have not practiced hovering that much as I like pattern work.

Thanks!

SpadCat

Edit: Found the answer on the first page of thread 30-33%.
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Old Jan 28, 2012, 01:46 AM
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Tsavah,

Excellent tutorial. The first 42" GRX V1 blue foam board ship I built was also my first experience with Gorilla glue, and boy what a yellow mess the joints are. It flies great, but not much to look at.

I then built 3 Polaris 120s out of Depron and used the white version of Gorilla glue which expands to a much lesser volume and cures faster. I also learned to use a lot less glue, applied cheap less tacky filament glass tape firmly over the joints (removed after curing) and the joints turned out really nice.

Another way to help keep the foaming down is to not spray water on the opposite surface. There is enough intrinsic moisture to activate the process. On sample joints tested to destruction, the glue's performance was excellent.

The only problem with white Gorilla glue is it only comes in smaller bottles at about 6+ dollars. To me it was worth it though.

Looking forward to building another much nicer 42" GRX.

SpadCat
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Old Jan 28, 2012, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadCat2000 View Post
... The first 42" GRX V1 blue foam board ship I built was also my first experience with Gorilla glue, and boy what a yellow mess the joints are. It flies great, but not much to look at. ... SpadCat
Good information about the Gorilla glue options and using tape until the glue has cured. I tend to use masking tape in the same manner on one side of the joint, the side that is down, since I won't be able to mess with it until the glue has cured. I think of it as the blind side of the glue joint, so some sort of controlling device must be in place before the expanding glue has a chance to get excited. I did try using the other types of masking tapes that help control paint lines to see if applying the tape almost against the top glue joint, on both sides, would make it easier to pop off the cured glue after it had finished. Sometimes the painters tape held the glue in check, and sometimes it didn't. When it did the glue formed a large bubble with a very narrow "neck", which was easy to break loose. Of course it was possible to notice where the glue had been broken off because the surface was rough with tiny holes.

I decided it was making the task more expensive with all the extra tape and figured it would have been better to use a non-foaming glue. Plenty of choices among the other glue brands, but the foaming glue is a great gap filler and makes a very strong bond with foam if pressure was applied during curing. The bond is hard to beat, even if a small bottle costs $6 since so little is normally needed. There is also the issue of shelf life for Gorilla and other brands of foaming glues. I once bought a large bottle of a common brand of foaming glue and somehow the neck of the bottle was damaged in transport from the store to my house. The glue foamed up all around the neck of the bottle and cured inside the plastic bottle. I had the impression the deal was too good and the glue was old. Since I ended up throwing out the bottle, it was wasted money. I suspect it was an early formula that was a bit too "hot" and had a very short shelf life once the bottle was opened. I have had other types of glue do the same thing (cure in the bottle), but it normally took freezing temperatures or some other storage problem. The lesson learned was to read the labels and expiration date. Otherwise there are all sorts of problems possible that may not be expected.
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Old Jan 28, 2012, 08:35 AM
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Here is my first attempt at building a foamy in about 7 or 8 years.....lots of good info here.....thanks guys!


Edit: ill be using all the guts from a patkzone extra bnf......15 size outrunner, 2200 3s, and the parkzone digital servos.

That plane was 34 oz. or so, so I hope this will be sufficiently powered.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 03:48 AM
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Updating Here

Looks good,the larger yakzilla i made last year in owens was quite a bit different in design than the original small epp version. I might make some revisions to the smaller one that the plans are out for but its fully capable of all the 3d stuff as is but could be improved. How much did you scale that one up? Whats wingspan etc?

Updates: EPP and welders.. As noted back a ways in the thread i really like welders for assembling epp planes but not so much for the hinges. If you like the welders hinge great.. Ive been flying epp planes with a few types of hinges for well over a year now. Heres some pros and cons..

PROS For Welders.. Its fairly durable and long lasting with easy repairs,you probably already have a tube of it if your assembling an epp plane so why bother on extra expense for better hinges. Many swear by it to assemble there kits or scratch builts and its popular in the forums to use for hinging.

Cons For Welders.. Easy for people new to using it to make a very stiff power robbing inefficient hinge that makes a servo struggle and control response is sluggish with less deflection and poorer centering.. this is amplified even worse when using lower quality servos. Everything even welders hinges wear and tear eventually,discoloring of hinge line and colder temps create more resistance.

I still really like the real plastic hinges,they take a little time to install but are fairly durable and almost friction free if installed with welders and a small dab of oil or goo gone on the hinge point. Another alternative is strapping tape hinges with a little welders smeared over the area prior to adding the tape. Applied just as regular hinges are at multiple points on each control surface. No more welders hinges for me.. not using it for hinges... will leave plenty more in the tube for assembling more planes or making repairs.

Raptor,assembled minus gear and will fly it eventually. Been busy with other things. Looking forward to spring and sunshine.. Had enough cabin fever,rarely flying and welders fumes .
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 10:16 AM
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Pics of the one i cut out a while back, 33'' wingspan and about 36'' long,will fly it with the hacker a10 9l and a hk 12amp after i throw some servos in it.
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