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Old Sep 23, 2009, 03:00 PM
Blind Hawk
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Seattle, WA USA
Joined Dec 2006
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Doggit,

Looks pretty good, hope the maiden goes well.

A couple of things I noticed in your build. Try to have the control rods from the servos to the elevons at a 90 degree angle to the hinge. Also mount the horns on the elevons closer to the hinge line so that the pivot point is directly above/below the hinge line.

These two things will help keep your throws linear and equal resulting in better control.

Also check your temps on the battery and esc after a couple minutes of flying. When closed in like they are with no air flow they can get warm/hot quick. Keep an eye on them the first few flights to be sure.

RdJay
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Old Sep 23, 2009, 03:17 PM
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northenden, manchester, england
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thanks for the good info rdjay, i plan to build another one in a few days in depron, as i like depron its a bit stiffer, and will try to do your suggestions, and might leave off the top box and just sink the elec's into the wing and velcro them secure, i will see how the EPP will fly tomorrow, and at least it will give me an idea of its capabilities in the air, also just ordered a couple of 1300 BW and may try one with an 8x3 prop but will just try my 500 and 610 lipos with it, do you think thats a good idea
carl
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Old Sep 23, 2009, 06:07 PM
Blind Hawk
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Seattle, WA USA
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Depron is stiffer, also breaks easier, especially with my "flying" style.

Should be fine. I always like to check temps on batteries, esc's and motors when flying a new model. If things stay cool you are set.

RdJay
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Old Sep 23, 2009, 10:00 PM
Rain or shine, wind or calm
Palatine
Joined Jul 2007
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I am in the process of making an 18" kesl! I am waiting for the parts from HC. I made a 24" kesl and it flew great, so I am going to break it down more!!!
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Old Sep 24, 2009, 08:21 AM
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swanton, vermont
Joined Apr 2005
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nice!

RDJAY: thanks for the great design work. Nice simple build and some of the best video & flying I have enjoyed on RC groups.
Its on my list of builds, as soon as I finish up two other projects.
Thanks again!!
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Old Sep 24, 2009, 09:03 AM
Blind Hawk
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Seattle, WA USA
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Tmaster - 18", wow, that will be a rocket! Let us know how it works.

Chucker, Not really my design (not smart enough for that), just kinda copied the Swift 2 size/shape that seems so popular. Good luck with it, and please report back.

RdJay
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Old Sep 25, 2009, 06:33 AM
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northenden, manchester, england
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well i maidened the KESL and it turned out a great morning, this wing is just what i like to fly, but i have one question, i downed the KESL hard and broke off a wing tip, so took the other one off, and it flew even better with no wing tips, so what do the wing tips actualy do for it, i have another 48" wing built from another thread, and i thought lets see what happens with this one if i do the same, and i could not believe how well this wing flew, they both flew so stable and my next KESL in depron wont have tips on as i now like them better, wing tip free, has anyone else found they fly better tipless
carl
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Old Sep 25, 2009, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doggit
well i maidened the KESL and it turned out a great morning, this wing is just what i like to fly, but i have one question, i downed the KESL hard and broke off a wing tip, so took the other one off, and it flew even better with no wing tips, so what do the wing tips actualy do for it, i have another 48" wing built from another thread, and i thought lets see what happens with this one if i do the same, and i could not believe how well this wing flew, they both flew so stable and my next KESL in depron wont have tips on as i now like them better, wing tip free, has anyone else found they fly better tipless
carl

The wing tips have been used to keep the vortex behind the step from "spilling out" off the tip of the wing. But, wing tips also add a bit of drag as well. The "wing tips" may work better on regular wings and may not be needed on swept back wings. In any case, you've made a nice little discovery and shared it with every one. You may not know it, but the KFm4 airfoil evolved out of a paper airplane that I designed over forty years ago. Thanks to the RC guys, the step is now be used everywhere. I am very grateful to all of those people who embraced this concept.
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Old Sep 25, 2009, 08:23 AM
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wow dickeroo, your idea has i think transformed rc flying and you must be a proud man knowing that your design is all over the world now, and yes the wing did seem smoother in the air, so the tips are affecting the flight, and i hope others find it better wthout them, so i know i am not imagining it i plan some more flying in the morning and have made the ends of the wing all clean and level after ripping off the tips, and i am really looking forward to more smooth fly by's
carl
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Old Sep 25, 2009, 08:43 AM
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First flights...

Carl...

You might get a kick out of this...

These shots were taken in 1964 from my office on the 24th floor, which overlooked the New York Public Library and Bryant Park in New York City. Many of the test flights were conducted from this location. Who knew where it would lead?

– Dick
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Old Sep 25, 2009, 08:59 AM
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those photos are like a piece of aviation history, really good, and i bet the people on the ground were surprised to see those paper planes landing, and not everyone can say they created a world idea, so its a pleasure to chat/type to you
carl
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Old Sep 25, 2009, 09:24 AM
Blind Hawk
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Seattle, WA USA
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Carl,

I put the tips on because the Swift 2 and many other wings I've seen have them. I have cut mine down by about 1/3 since the beginning and noticed no difference. Haven't tried without but if it's better then that's great. Simpler build, less drag, less weight, all good! Looking forward to more of your reports, if all works I'll give it a go.

Dick,

Love those photo's! This past summer I built a 42" ws, full fuse kind of "Yakish" plane and used the KFm4 wing. It flies well, you know.................. GREAT! I can't see building any foamie without using a step (or two or three or..) in the wing unless you are going for ultra light weight/indoor stuff or real high speed.

RdJay
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Old Sep 25, 2009, 12:13 PM
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RdJay and Carl...

You guys might get a kick out of these pictures– . It's the first U-control model that was built by Floyd Fogleman with twin gas-powered engines. It was based on the paper airplane that used the step on the bottom. Later, when I put the step on top I found that I got more lift than when it was placed on the bottom.

– Dick
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Old Sep 25, 2009, 01:17 PM
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hey dick, those photos are really good, and its yet more history, and i must apologise i didnt realise that you are the K in the KFm4 oopps,
carl
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Old Sep 25, 2009, 01:58 PM
Blind Hawk
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Seattle, WA USA
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Dick,

Very nice. Do you know if anyone has ever done an electric R/C model of that design? Looks like it would work well.

RdJay
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