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Old Jan 05, 2013, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sky_Captain View Post
I fly both and I don't feel the difference when I fly them. Also, I can buy at least two of everything I buy from HK than I can HH planes, so I don' t need no stinkin customer service.
Well, hope you have a Good Day!
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 04:49 PM
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"Using Gyros on an RC airplane"

Come on guys, let's get back on track. This is a thread on "Using Gyros on an RC airplane", not "HK vs Spektrum".
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 07:54 PM
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I had the greatest day of flying so far yesterday. I brought for airplanes everything from a Cessna 182, big heavy scale Cessna 182 to an assassin combat wing. I've only had my pilots license for five weeks. It was the kind of show that the veterans of our sport love to watch. And I flew everything I had. What was not known to the group was that I was flying an Eagle A3 rate only Gyro board on everything I was flying except the combat wing.

When I brought the big Cessna back to set it down they noticed that it was making all kinds of noises "you have some kind of servo problems DJ" I told him it was a gyros trying to correct for me jerking the plane around while I carry it.

Then the questions started "I hear that if the plane turns upside down it'll turn it back right side up". There were lots of questions and I couldn't explain the difference between a headlock Gyro and a rate only Gyro.

I think I learned from y'all that I headlock Gyro will follow the movements of the stick. Bank left then return the stick and the plane returned with it. A rate only Gyro does not return the plane such as in a bank when the stick is returned to center.

Is any of that right?

DJ
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 09:01 PM
CP heli ≠ 3D heli
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United States, NJ, Point Pleasant Beach
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Originally Posted by Sculptor View Post
I had the greatest day of flying so far yesterday. I brought for airplanes everything from a Cessna 182, big heavy scale Cessna 182 to an assassin combat wing. I've only had my pilots license for five weeks. It was the kind of show that the veterans of our sport love to watch. And I flew everything I had. What was not known to the group was that I was flying an Eagle A3 rate only Gyro board on everything I was flying except the combat wing.

When I brought the big Cessna back to set it down they noticed that it was making all kinds of noises "you have some kind of servo problems DJ" I told him it was a gyros trying to correct for me jerking the plane around while I carry it.

Then the questions started "I hear that if the plane turns upside down it'll turn it back right side up". There were lots of questions and I couldn't explain the difference between a headlock Gyro and a rate only Gyro.

I think I learned from y'all that I headlock Gyro will follow the movements of the stick. Bank left then return the stick and the plane returned with it. A rate only Gyro does not return the plane such as in a bank when the stick is returned to center.

Is any of that right?

DJ
A rate gyro limits the speed of rotation around a particular axis, so if you don't touch the controls, the aircraft will drift off it's course eventually, how fast it will drift depends on what rate of rotation the gyro will limit.

A head lock gyro does not allow any rotation around a particular axis unless commanded by the pilot, thus, in theory, no drift will happen and the plane will track in a straight line indefinitely.

That's the only difference.

In fixed wing aircraft, rate mode is highly recommended, because airplanes are dynamically stable by themselves (if built correctly). So a gyro is only needed to stop sudden distractions by the wind. Using heading hold will interfere with the natural self-correcting tendencies of the airplane.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 07:07 AM
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When in rate mode, though, a plane with a gyro won't drift like helicopter tail the same way. There is inherent stability to an airplane so in rate mode, it will drift no different than w/o the gyro (unless your gyro is severely faulty)

Try HH mode if you want but I've yet to like it myself. I've gotten it to hold a knife edge hands off, but you spend more time getting the angle right than just flying the sticks. There are some people that like HH in an airplane, but not me. Conversly, in most of the 3D helicopters I fly, they are flybarless sytems that are 3 axis HH and I like it that way, just not in a plane.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by canon1 View Post
It's really a good thing you're buying two of everything from HK 'cause that's what you're gonna need when buying from them. "stinkin customer service" is exactly what you get from them.
I can't sit idly and let this comment go by.
I only bought one of everything that I have bought from them and they have ALL FLOWN GREATLY and continue to do so.
Thank you sir and good day
Cheers
Oh and people that know how to work on their stuff don't need customer service.
It's quicker to fix it yourself than it is to go to anyone else.
We need to go back to a time where peope actually did stuff for themselves. I'm guessing your not a do it yourself kind of guy. Last summer I saved about 4 grand by remodeling my master bath myself.

Let's agree to disagree. I will continue to save my hard earned money and spend it where I deam wisely. You continue to spend your hard earned money where you wish.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 02:03 PM
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I can't sit idly and let this comment go by.....
Wikipedia:
"Troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 02:12 PM
Flying is Freedom
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Originally Posted by HappyFlier View Post
Wikipedia:
"Troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
Really? and what was this?
"It's really a good thing you're buying two of everything from HK 'cause that's what you're gonna need when buying from them. "stinkin customer service" is exactly what you get from them."
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 05:42 PM
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Troll for sure
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 08:30 PM
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Thank you all for helping me clarify my lack of understanding about rate and headlock gyros. Out of the 362 members of the RC Hawks flying club here in Cape Coral Florida it seems I'm the only one to bring planes that all have the Eagle A3 Gyro board in them. The wind never stops blowing in the winter here unless you fly at daylight which I don't.

I'm gonna try to be brief, note when I said that my wife burst into laughter in the background here goes.

1. A rate only Gyro only reacts to movements in the plane that did not come as a command from the transmitter such as wind, impact from a vulture, etc. etc. etc.
if I bank my plane left and return the stick to center the plane will continue to go left unless it is self righting by its physical nature.

2. A headlock Gyro, head hold Gyro will do all the things a rate only Gyro will do but if I bank it left and return the stick to center the plane will return to center.

Does that sound right? If it is then I have a brief, easy to understand answer for the people in my flight club that ask.

Thank y'all so much for helping me with this complex subject.

DJ
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 09:44 PM
CP heli ≠ 3D heli
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Originally Posted by Sculptor View Post
Thank you all for helping me clarify my lack of understanding about rate and headlock gyros. Out of the 362 members of the RC Hawks flying club here in Cape Coral Florida it seems I'm the only one to bring planes that all have the Eagle A3 Gyro board in them. The wind never stops blowing in the winter here unless you fly at daylight which I don't.

I'm gonna try to be brief, note when I said that my wife burst into laughter in the background here goes.

1. A rate only Gyro only reacts to movements in the plane that did not come as a command from the transmitter such as wind, impact from a vulture, etc. etc. etc.
if I bank my plane left and return the stick to center the plane will continue to go left unless it is self righting by its physical nature.

2. A headlock Gyro, head hold Gyro will do all the things a rate only Gyro will do but if I bank it left and return the stick to center the plane will return to center.

Does that sound right? If it is then I have a brief, easy to understand answer for the people in my flight club that ask.

Thank y'all so much for helping me with this complex subject.

DJ
Incorrect. No gyro will make your plane come back to center.

Both, rate and heading hold will do the same thing, except rate gyro will "forget and forgive" it's orientation after a while and heading hold will will detect the change in direction and hold the grudge until the end of days, then it will come back to bite you.

For your aircraft to come back to center you need accelerometers, for your aircraft to resist wind, you need a navigation system with cameras or GPS.


You don't have to read what I wrote below to use a gyro successfully, be warned, it's a long read.

To understand how a gyro works, imagine this. You are locked in a box with no windows in an international space station orbiting the earth. Someone walks over and tilts the box with you in it, you are the gyro and you have to guess how many degrees that someone tilted the box with you in it.

Since you are weightless orbiting the earth, you will not tilt when the box is tilted, because you're not touching the sides, therefore you can draw a line on the inside of the box, then wait for someone to tilt it and see how far the line shifted.

The problem is, how do you know if you are not already spinning together with the box before someone tilts it. That's why you have to trust that upon powering up, you are not already rotating, this is why we tell people to not touch their helicopters while they are initializing.

Using the previous box in space analogy: a rate gyro will draw a line with fading ink, how fast the ink fades depends on who made the gyro, a servo connected to such a gyro will come back to neutral after a few seconds, because once the line fades, the gyro will draw a new one in a new orientation. A heading hold gyro will draw a line in permanent ink and the servo connected to it will stay permanently deflected.

That's how a gyro works.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Gedexas View Post
Incorrect. No gyro will make your plane come back to center.

Both, rate and heading hold will do the same thing, except rate gyro will "forget and forgive" it's orientation after a while and heading hold will will detect the change in direction and hold the grudge until the end of days, then it will come back to bite you.

For your aircraft to come back to center you need accelerometers, for your aircraft to resist wind, you need a navigation system with cameras or GPS.


You don't have to read what I wrote below to use a gyro successfully, be warned, it's a long read.

To understand how a gyro works, imagine this. You are locked in a box with no windows in an international space station orbiting the earth. Someone walks over and tilts the box with you in it, you are the gyro and you have to guess how many degrees that someone tilted the box with you in it.

Since you are weightless orbiting the earth, you will not tilt when the box is tilted, because you're not touching the sides, therefore you can draw a line on the inside of the box, then wait for someone to tilt it and see how far the line shifted.

The problem is, how do you know if you are not already spinning together with the box before someone tilts it. That's why you have to trust that upon powering up, you are not already rotating, this is why we tell people to not touch their helicopters while they are initializing.

Using the previous box in space analogy: a rate gyro will draw a line with fading ink, how fast the ink fades depends on who made the gyro, a servo connected to such a gyro will come back to neutral after a few seconds, because once the line fades, the gyro will draw a new one in a new orientation. A heading hold gyro will draw a line in permanent ink and the servo connected to it will stay permanently deflected.

That's how a gyro works.
Thank you for that,
DJ
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 08:33 AM
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Troll for sure
I have been on these forums for a long time. I am always either looking for help or helping someone else. Occasionaly like anyone else, I run across someone where we dissagree with each other. And naturally when someone makes a very negative comment like Canon1 posted then that caused me to react.

All I'm saying is don't point me out to be the bad buy when I wasn't the fist one to get nasty.
I can be a man and say I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Didn't mean for it to go that far.

I am eager to get on with learning about gyros on planes because I still know nothing about it. I have received the two gyros I ordered and can't wait to try them out. Although it will probably be next spring before I get a chance to actually fly with them, I will start installing them and ground testing them by doing hand rolls and movements.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 09:05 AM
Team Wack-a-Mole
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Incorrect. No gyro will make your plane come back to center
This is incorrect unless you put the words "generic helicopter gyro"

Yes, there are gyros that will auto center. Specifically dedicated 3 axis airplane gyro system. The Eagle Tree Guardian will do this.
It has an 'auto level" feature just like the multi wii multi copter controller has.
Basically, to stay in a turn, you have to keep pushing the sticks. Let go and it centers.

I use this mode when doing buddy boxing so all I need to do is keep my hands off an throttle down. I can let the student struggle/try longer to get it back under control and I don't have to even try to get it back into orientation. Lets me allow more people to fly my plane and no mishaps. If I were learning, Id' not stay on this mode very long or it would become a crutch. This is however something that FPV guys like
EagleTree Guardian 2D test (3 min 43 sec)
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 09:55 AM
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Now I understand why the Eagle Tree is so expensive.
I hope my RX3S or the GY-48V I bought will suffice for what I want it to do which is help me keep the plane stable while flying on windy days.
Want a good laugh? I have temporarily misplaced my GY-48V I will have to do some more digging. I hate it when I don't put something in a logical place and later I will find it and say, why did I put it there. I guess it's a matter of organizational problems with the limited space I have.

That looks a lot like my old Sky Surfer. It was a fun plane but I had to make room for other new stuff
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