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Old Oct 02, 2012, 09:42 AM
Team Wack-a-Mole
Melnic's Avatar
Maryland
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landeck View Post
Melnic, our field has both pavement and grass runways and I fly tail draggers off both. Just about 100% of the time we have crosswinds. I have been flying RC for 40 years, the first 38 without help of a gyro. Many times on short coupled tail draggers I would have to take off cross runway into the wind. With the help of a gyro I no longer need to do that. I know you do not like to use HH hold on take off but I find it works very well for me making the whole flight much more enjoyable.

Bruce
I had flown in HH some but did not like it cause either my trail drager tails were lose or it was a WW1 bipe with a tail skid.

With a crosswind, I need to crab into the wind and then kick the rudder over just before touch down to line the plane going down the runway if I want to land comming right down the runway and have the plane heading match the centerline. In heading hold mode, I keep finding that I have to turn the dual rates down or the yaw rate is too sensitive for my liking. I've been finding that in rate mode, I still have to fly the rudder, but the gusts that normally cause sudden yaw changes are greatly reduced.

Just the other day on Saturday, we had 10mph crosswinds and everyone else packed up and I still flew the WWI 1/4 scale bipe. I still had to work the rudder on the crosswind to crab and land straight.

Are you crabbing into the wind or are you letting the wind drift the plane?
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 10:35 AM
Registered User
Sandy Springs, GA
Joined Jul 2008
508 Posts
On landing I crab into the wind with the gyro off. On take off I let the HH mode gyro take care of the cross wind, increasing engine torque, and bumps in the grass while I manage the elevator. With my reflexes, take offs are just much nicer looking, safer, and more consistent using the gyro in HH mode.

I had an interesting problem on one of my planes, a GP quarter scale RV-4. About 1/4 into the take off run the plane would make a quick 20 degree turn to the left but continue straight from that point. This was independent of the wind direction. I was able to track the problem down to high tail vibration when the throttle was 1/3 full open. The vibration was causing the Futaba GY401 to change heading. I tracked the vibration problem down to a slight inbalance in the prop. Once the prop was balanced correctly the problem went away. I aways balance my props before using them but apparently I was a little sloppy when I originally balanced that prop.

Bruce
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 11:04 AM
Team Wack-a-Mole
Melnic's Avatar
Maryland
Joined Oct 2008
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So you don't use the gyro on landings?

I keep threatening to by a GeeBee R2 and put an eagletree on it.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 11:41 AM
Team Wack-a-Mole
Melnic's Avatar
Maryland
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ The Flyer View Post
Hmmmm ... Ok. Sorry for the messy input.

1. The gyro is a Helicox TG-1

2. TX/RX are Futaba 6J6

3. I have 2 aileron servos.

Here is the link to the Helicox site.

Russ
Well, this is a device intended for flybarless helicopters. Although they mention the airplane use on the page you link, I see nothing in the manual to set it to airplane mode. You could concievably hook it up and run it in heading hold mode, but I think you will be wasting your time considering the trouble you had with the 2 seperate gyros. There is alot of setup for this device and you will have to likely post a bunch of questions.

The gain channel will be for the tail only and you won't have a way to turn it on/off for the other axis.

It appears this gyro system is relabeled under other names but I don't see a main company website.

My advise is to return this and get an A3 Pro.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 01:56 PM
Registered User
Sandy Springs, GA
Joined Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melnic View Post
So you don't use the gyro on landings?

I keep threatening to by a GeeBee R2 and put an eagletree on it.
No, I do not use the gyro on landings. I have found no use for it. Now, if I had a plane where ground loops are a problem, I would try one in rate mode.

Bruce
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 12:43 AM
It flies or it dies
Russ The Flyer's Avatar
Deville, Louisiana
Joined Sep 2008
836 Posts
Hi Melnic. I thiink I may have figured it out. I'll have to make some wire changes. I'll just use the channels 1,2,3 and 4 or maybe the rudder channel since that's what it's for anyway. I have the stuff to make custom 3 strand wires with. So I'll just have to see how it all comes out. I'm also waiting for a return email from Helicox to see if they have any answers about setting up an airplane. Someone has to have used it for something besides a heli.

Russ
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 03:50 AM
Trust me I'm an engineer!
Australia, VIC, Bright
Joined Sep 2012
184 Posts
Thanks for all the posts, I read the first 25 and then skipped to the last 5, but got what I needed.
I have an unflown Catalina all set to go, but thought I'd put in a spare 704B gyro from one of my helis. After a couple of false starts it looks like it's set up fine, using the gear switch to switch to rate mode and both ailerons on the y connector do the right things. Gyro seems to switch off when the gear switch is off, I haven't programmed the radio for that channel so I think it's set to zero. All trims and sub trims are zeroed as I like to mechanically trim all my helis whenever possible.
Found an old photo and magazine articles from 1982/3 when I had a Playboy gas .25 heli, no gyros then! Learned to hover well but did some dumb things like taking off on slopes, in long grass etc. Wish I could remember how it was set up.
Started over a year ago with an Esky Belt CP V2 and it was sooo easy especially with the gyro and an extra 4 grams on each end of the flybar. Now I have three of them and a King3 which I really like. My sons are both into RC as well, great fun.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 12:37 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
3,802 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ The Flyer View Post
Hi Melnic. I thiink I may have figured it out. ...
For what it is worth, looking at the manual, for an airplane, it is probably easiest to pretend that you have a "heli normal" swashplate (one servo controlling aileron/roll and one servo controlling elevator/pitch [nose to tail pitch, not blade pitch]) and forget about Ch. 3 (collective blade pitch).

p.s. In case you have not noticed, "pitch" is an overloaded term with helis. There is
1. the pitch of the body (like pitch for an airplane): the angle going from the tail of the aircraft to the nose
2. the blade pitch (usually not used for airplanes): the angle going from the trailing edge of a helicopter rotor blade to its leading edge..

LATER: I noticed in section "3 Connections" of the manual, that the following new settings exist in this 3-axis gyro:
"Aero Nomal" and "Aero Delta" in G-BOX.

These are probably the settings to use for an airplane, and ignoring collective blade pitch, "heli normal" will probably be pretty close to "aero normal"
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Last edited by flying-llama; Oct 03, 2012 at 12:53 PM. Reason: noticed new settings in the manual
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 01:29 PM
CP heli ≠ 3D heli
Gedexas's Avatar
United States, NJ, Point Pleasant Beach
Joined Mar 2009
1,676 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flying-llama View Post
For what it is worth, looking at the manual, for an airplane, it is probably easiest to pretend that you have a "heli normal" swashplate (one servo controlling aileron/roll and one servo controlling elevator/pitch [nose to tail pitch, not blade pitch]) and forget about Ch. 3 (collective blade pitch).

p.s. In case you have not noticed, "pitch" is an overloaded term with helis. There is
1. the pitch of the body (like pitch for an airplane): the angle going from the tail of the aircraft to the nose
2. the blade pitch (usually not used for airplanes): the angle going from the trailing edge of a helicopter rotor blade to its leading edge..

LATER: I noticed in section "3 Connections" of the manual, that the following new settings exist in this 3-axis gyro:
"Aero Nomal" and "Aero Delta" in G-BOX.

These are probably the settings to use for an airplane, and ignoring collective blade pitch, "heli normal" will probably be pretty close to "aero normal"
Helis have settings for swashplate like flybar simulation and phasing adjustment. Also, the swashplate pitch and roll are always in a state similar to heading hold, so no rate for ailerons or elevator will be possible. Cyclic gain effects will probably be very different from aileron and elevator gain too. I don't own any of these units, so this is all speculation, but if it were my plane, I would avoid using any helicopter settings in an airplane.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 01:54 PM
Team Wack-a-Mole
Melnic's Avatar
Maryland
Joined Oct 2008
8,439 Posts
flying llama, I"m sort of wanting to discourage Russ from trying this unless he can't return it.
as just said by Gedexas, Unless the documentation is absolutely clear on it, A flybarless helis operates the Ail/Elev axis in Heading Hold mode. If Aero mode works in Rate mode great, but it is not clear, so it may be Heading only. which can cause problems in a plane (do a stall turn w/ heading hold on the rudder and just find out).
Russ,
Yes, Pitch is normally CH6 in a helicopter, but you won't use it. Nor would you want to use ch 3 (throttle). 1,2, 4 for the gyro and 5 for the gain which may be just the tail. Again, the manual is not clear and good luck with support from those guys.

One other reason why the Eagle Tree Guardian would clean house in this market right now if they could build enough of them.
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 03:50 PM
It flies or it dies
Russ The Flyer's Avatar
Deville, Louisiana
Joined Sep 2008
836 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melnic View Post
flying llama, I"m sort of wanting to discourage Russ from trying this unless he can't return it.
as just said by Gedexas, Unless the documentation is absolutely clear on it, A flybarless helis operates the Ail/Elev axis in Heading Hold mode. If Aero mode works in Rate mode great, but it is not clear, so it may be Heading only. which can cause problems in a plane (do a stall turn w/ heading hold on the rudder and just find out).
Russ,
Yes, Pitch is normally CH6 in a helicopter, but you won't use it. Nor would you want to use ch 3 (throttle). 1,2, 4 for the gyro and 5 for the gain which may be just the tail. Again, the manual is not clear and good luck with support from those guys.

One other reason why the Eagle Tree Guardian would clean house in this market right now if they could build enough of them.
Chalk it up to a learning experience. I'm gonna hound these people for an airplane only manual of some type, even if they have to write it their selves.

Russ
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Old Oct 03, 2012, 08:52 PM
Sopwith Camel's Cousin
Between my tx and crashed aircraft
Joined Mar 2006
3,802 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melnic View Post
flying llama, I"m sort of wanting to discourage Russ from trying this unless he can't return it.
as just said by Gedexas, Unless the documentation is absolutely clear on it, A flybarless helis operates the Ail/Elev axis in Heading Hold mode. If Aero mode works in Rate mode great, but it is not clear, so it may be Heading only. which can cause problems in a plane (do a stall turn w/ heading hold on the rudder and just find out).
...
Sounds good to me.
Think of my comments as "in case you are stuck with the unit".
My comments were kind of based on a Walkera flybarless micro FP heli (so "normal swash" with 2 servos, Ail and Elev) from a year or 2 ago, where one vendor was actively selling its 3-axis gyro unit for use in airplanes also. My memory was that this Walkera heli was 120 size, and A/E were in rate mode.
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Last edited by flying-llama; Oct 03, 2012 at 09:01 PM.
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 12:23 AM
It flies or it dies
Russ The Flyer's Avatar
Deville, Louisiana
Joined Sep 2008
836 Posts
To Melnic

Inb looking at the gyro on page 3. Connections, since it's showing the wires at the top of the gyro box I would assume the gyros plug into ones marked CH1, etc. The GV48 has wires that are permanently attached where this one doesn't.

The pic is showing Pit/Ele/Aux and the next 2 are Ail and Rud respectively. So I assume those wires are the ones that plug into the servo.

There seems to be a wire missing with 3 leads and that is the Elev plug. But the top one has 3 single plugs attached. How is that supposed to work?

Guess I'll just wait until the Hobbywing people get back from their holiday in China. Supposed to be Oct 7.

Russ
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 09:49 AM
AKA, Cheap Chiseler
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United States, FL, North Fort Myers
Joined Mar 2012
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By y'all and thank you
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Old Oct 04, 2012, 12:37 PM
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Herman Munster's Avatar
United States, Mt, Libby
Joined Nov 2007
1,420 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ The Flyer View Post
Inb looking at the gyro on page 3. Connections, since it's showing the wires at the top of the gyro box I would assume the gyros plug into ones marked CH1, etc. The GV48 has wires that are permanently attached where this one doesn't.

The pic is showing Pit/Ele/Aux and the next 2 are Ail and Rud respectively. So I assume those wires are the ones that plug into the servo.

There seems to be a wire missing with 3 leads and that is the Elev plug. But the top one has 3 single plugs attached. How is that supposed to work?

Guess I'll just wait until the Hobbywing people get back from their holiday in China. Supposed to be Oct 7.

Russ
I really do wish you the best Russ, in your communication with the manufacturer. Maybe I'm too cynical but from my experiences and reading I would be very surprised if you get any where with them. Usually once they have your money they don't want to have any thing else to do with you.
I'd just mark it up to experience and do like Melnic suggested and get the A3Pro. I really wouldn't risk my airplane to a gyro that I "assume" this is how to hook it up.
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