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Old Mar 30, 2003, 02:35 PM
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Mike C's Avatar
Roxboro, NC U.S.A.
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What makes a plane STOL?

I was working on my honeydo list around the house this morning since it is raing and snowing here in NC and I got to windering what makes an aircraft suitable for Short Take Off and Landing. More power? More flaps? More wing area? All of the above? Thinking about a plane to take off from normal grass in very short runway lengths. Just one of those things that make you go Hmmm!
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Old Mar 30, 2003, 05:31 PM
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AirVenture's Avatar
SW Wisconsin
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http://www.cubcrafters.com/cc/products.asp

Here's an idea about what is done on full scale aircraft. Also something that wasn't mentioned was the prop. I think with these cubs you can buy either a climb or a cruise prop. More advanced planes you are able to control the pitch of the prop.

Like you said, with model airplanes, just add wing area, reduce weight, use a more efficient airfoil, and so on and or forth.
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Old Mar 30, 2003, 05:37 PM
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Granby, CT, USA
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STOL definition

It generally means that an airplane can depart after an unusually short ground run at a steep enough angle to clear the encroaching trees. And get back into the same place it took off from. Lots of aircraft can get off impressively short, but cannot safely generate an approach angle/rate of descent that allows them back into their departure location. Whether it means particular performance numbers, I do not know.
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Old Mar 30, 2003, 07:43 PM
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Atlanta Metro Area
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Usually you will find that full scale aircraft equipped for STOL will have turned down wing tips. Some aircraft manufacturers offer a kit to install on the wings. As an example, take a look at the GWS E-Starter ARF. It may be a bit exaggerated but it simulates a STOL equipped plane. It doesn't make that much difference on a model but for a full scale plane it can make a lot of difference. Had a friend that put a STOL kit on his Cherokee Six so he could land and take off from a unregistered short private grass strip behind his house (on a farm). STOL stands for "Short Takeoff or Landing"
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Old Mar 30, 2003, 10:33 PM
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Roxboro, NC U.S.A.
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Those drooping wingtips might not offer any STOL advantage to a model airplane but they would look cool.
AirVenture: Neat website! I am always shocked when I see the price of real planes. That super cub looks like it is on Steroids! Sweet ride.
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Old Mar 31, 2003, 03:12 AM
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Kamloops, BC, Canada
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For interest's sake in this thread, I added a relatively complete STOL kit to a Mountain Models Cessna 180. It's a 36" 10 oz park flyer. The flaps are scale and functional. The ailerons also droop slightly with flap operation. The droop tips are hand carved and there is a leading edge cuff to the wing. The cuff effect is quite noticable due to increasing the camber of the wing but the tips are all-but-useless. I had one bump off (they're held on with magnets) on a takeoff roll and noticed no changes whatsoever in the flying characteristics of the plane.

Martin
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Old Mar 31, 2003, 03:51 AM
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Speak about a beautiful plane !!!

Great picture, difficult to see it is not a real big plane.
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Old Mar 31, 2003, 05:09 AM
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Bonney Lake, WA
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Mike, to answer your question, all of the above and more. STOL planes have lots of wing/flap/lift, which usually also increases the drag, and a sick thrust to weight ratio. Notice I said thrust, not power. Power to weight will give you a better climb rate, while thrust to weight gives you a better climb angle. STOL planes like to have a good climb angle. They are a real kick to fly.
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Old Mar 31, 2003, 05:55 AM
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Doc Watson's Avatar
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This thing will STOVL, it must do it says it on the fin!!!!!!

Doc
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Old Mar 31, 2003, 07:30 AM
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The landing part of STOL is much harder than the take off part. Consider any fun-fly. Adding flaps only helps a little in reducing landing speed and increasing the approach angle. Leading edge slots or flaps are also required full size, though I don't know how well they would work on a model.

Pete Russell (RCM&E columnist) designed some gas STOL models with LE slots which he converted to electric and flew out of his garden (back yard) 25+ years ago.

Neil.
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Old Mar 31, 2003, 07:31 AM
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There's a well-known UK designer called Peter Russell who drew up a model called the "STOL" in the 70s, for flying in his back garden. It was IC (of course), for engines around .20-.25 IIRC. Very light, with flaps and LE slats. It was updated several times, with the plans being published in (I think) RCM&E. A quick Google search found the pic. below, which I think is a "Mk 3". I'm sure the plan is still available, it would make a great electric conversion!
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Old Mar 31, 2003, 07:41 AM
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Thanks for amplification and the illustration Bill. I also Googled but didn't find anything.

Neil.
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Old Mar 31, 2003, 07:41 AM
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Neil - great minds etc. !

I had a large photo plane in the 80s that was pretty STOL. ST 90 turning a 14x6, flapperons, and separate TE airbrakes. So you could dial in any combination of lift, or drag, or both ... with excellent power to weight (even carrying 4lbs of camera gear) for rapid acceleration and steep climbout. 'Cleaned up' it penetrated well (having a thinnish sem-symmetrical section) and was fully aerobatic. So it could handle most weather conditions, unlike the 'old timer' type models which many people were using for aerial photography at the time.

I also flew it with a servo-operated 8mm cine camera on the side of the fus., I have some footage (somewhere) including loops/spins/flick rolls/touch & gos, even a lowish inverted pass! Rather stomach-churning, and before that exercise I thought I flew pretty smoothly
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Old Mar 31, 2003, 01:56 PM
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Bonney Lake, WA
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neil Stainton
The landing part of STOL is much harder than the take off part. Consider any fun-fly. Adding flaps only helps a little in reducing landing speed and increasing the approach angle. Leading edge slots or flaps are also required full size, though I don't know how well they would work on a model.

Pete Russell (RCM&E columnist) designed some gas STOL models with LE slots which he converted to electric and flew out of his garden (back yard) 25+ years ago.

Neil.
While the LE devices help, they are certainly not required in full scale for short landings. Cubs and Cessnas don't have them and don't need them. Yes you can purchase a modified LE for a Cessna that is drooped just a little but most of them don't have it and can land in a fairly short distance. In the Beaver we can use flaps that can depoly nearly 75 degrees, basically turning them into a barn door. I rarely use full flaps for landing, especially with passengers, because the approach angle is uncomfortably steep. You are literally against your straps staring at the ground when approaching with full flaps. Once on the water the Beaver can be stopped in 300 feet or less, depending on the winds.
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Old Apr 01, 2003, 05:36 PM
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Victoria, BC, Canada
Joined Apr 2001
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Re: What makes a plane STOL?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike C
what makes an aircraft suitable for Short Take Off and Landing.
Reversing props really help on landing Other than that, the methods generally fall under camber changing. If you have a high-camber, high-drag wing for landing it requires a long takeoff roll and is very slow in the air.

Andy Lennon's book and his articles in RCM and MAN provide all kinds of details for model STOL designs.
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/pla...onth_robin.asp

Rick.
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