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Old Apr 11, 2009, 01:35 AM
Torn 'twixt buildin' and flyin
TheNightowl's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2007
7,236 Posts
Well, I have to give Jim Deck credit for at least getting this process in motion at LSF. (Which is not to diminish any of the efforts being put forth by Steve Boone and others.)

While it is too soon to tell if the steps at the LSF may yield the desired results, at least it shows that Jim is willing to listen.

So, now is a great time to keep working on the Sportsman Soaring Program, whether it develops into a part of the LSF or a stand-alone program.

Steve, I'm not going anywhere. (Might be a little less active on the boards over the next month or so; work related stuff [some of us still have to earn a living!], but I'm not going anywhere. I'm anxious to see what the bronze and other levels develop into.

Nightowl
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Old Apr 11, 2009, 07:41 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
I know, I'm breaking my own rule here but.....
I thought I would pose this here first before discussing it with the LSF. They have named their proposed new program the SSAP (Sportsman Soaring Accomplishment Program). To me this is a bit too close to our name and I would like to see that changed. IMHO, it would have been like me naming our program the LSSF (League of Silent Sportsman Fliers). We may not have a copywrite on our name yet, but out of common courtesy I think they should pick something different enough as to not get this program and theirs confused. Your thoughts on this please.
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Also, is theirs to be just the same program without the contest requirements? That's what it sounds like to me.
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Does anyone have a desire for membership cards with your name and a number on them? That way down the road you can declare who was the first nutjob to take this program on? Or just leave it as an open enrollment kind of thing. At some point we need to decide on a verification process for levels as well. At least the top ones.
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I will be offline today as we're going to finish the track, have save the planet day and family day so I'll be a bit busy.
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Old Apr 11, 2009, 09:55 AM
Cleveland Ohio
Cleveland Ohio
Joined Jan 2006
244 Posts
electric component

$100 is not that much for a limiter. digital servos, moldie, winches are all a lot more. the eagle tree i have is many dollars more but is fun to see exactly how high i am in real time and get other telemetry. i got my unit from Jack. and yes they did a demo at muncie but was a false start with planes shutting down early. people forgot to recalibrate for sea level at muncie.

Ric Vaughn has repeatedly posted that during his cd experience at the nats and his fun fly, getting to 2000 feet does not translate into automatic task accomplishment. our experiences support that contention.

regarding restarting motors to get back up, that is park flyer, casual flyer attitude. that is ok to motor around the sky for a casual day,but that is recreational flying and a disservice to sailplane flyers who just like the easier nature of getting up quickly on a weekday. When i fly my pike perfect my goals are the same with my hyper or pulsar. although gordy S and others have debated this, finding lift and soaring is my goal. using the motor to stay up is not a goal for me.

More competetive e flyers types are generally use to flying with just one motor run of a short duration. some contests allow restarts, but all time motor is on is subtracted from flight time.

i do not believe soaring time should starts at end of motor run. since motoring on a horizontal level waiting for thermals is generally not endorsed, my only point about 90 sec runs is that only the slow gentle ladies and brushed cans might need it. even with 45 sec, i often shut down motor early due to weak eyes.

all these program efforts are great to address people needs for what is not in LSF. the purpose of any of these programs such as our SPAM sloper achievenemnts is to have fun and provide some goals. even if steve's efforts are in parallel to the proposed LSF program, whats the deal. LSF seems to get bogged down with its history. We can justifies a lot of socializing at the local hot wings establishment as we debate our program details. We became much more liberated and creative when we stopped talking about LSF nuances and just focused on what we wanted to do. our mantra was "Build a pogram, and the flyers will come"

the effort to get a real program up and running is monumental and hats off to anyone doing it.

we are plannig for video verfication of tasks (hard to fake and removes need for "certified" LSFer) is to share one's experiences with others is cool. One of our achievement tasks is a scripted 2 min aerobatic program on slope. video is perfect vechicle for this. We have a dedicated web site and galley software.

Bill Snow
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Old Apr 11, 2009, 10:14 AM
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Clearlake, CA. USA
Joined Jun 2000
1,021 Posts
Copying?

Seems to me someone is doing the me too thing.. keep of the good work Steve, I haven't joined the other for the reason of the contest requirements inwhich I think was bogus to begin with, but be that as it may... will join this group....


Best Regards,


Wylie S.
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Old Apr 11, 2009, 10:45 AM
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FDNYJERY's Avatar
LONGWOOD, FLORIDA
Joined Aug 2003
108 Posts
[B]Steve ,Just a great Idea, something I really needed to get my butt in gear ,I really appreciate you and all the contributors to this site as I know it will make me a better sailplane pilot. Many Thanks and I'll be listening and reading. Jerry aka fdnyjery
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Old Apr 11, 2009, 11:20 AM
AKA - The "Flywheel"
StevenatorLTFO's Avatar
SOAR Chicago!!!
Joined Jan 2005
1,876 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie Shaw
Seems to me someone is doing the me too thing.. keep of the good work Steve, I haven't joined the other for the reason of the contest requirements inwhich I think was bogus to begin with, but be that as it may... will join this group....


Best Regards,


Wylie S.

I think before we go jumping on the LSF, lets go back to a post in March that highlighted an exchange between Steve and Ed...

With that said, I wish Steve the best with his program. I really don't want to see this become a US VS THEM sort of situation.



I recently posed a question to the LSF presidents and thought I would share it. Here is a copy of my e-mail and the answer I received. Please feel free to comment on the idea.

Email:

Mike & Ed,
How about a sportsman class with no contest requirements? There are a lot of people who have no desire to compete or for one reason or another competition just isn't feasible. It would be nice to have a goal oriented program for us and a way to reconize our accomplishments as well.

Steve Boone
LSF Level I

Reply:
Steve your wish may be answered very soon. We have been discussing something along those lines. Information hopefully will be out soon.
Edwin Wilson
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Old Apr 11, 2009, 09:01 PM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
In case you're wondering where I've been hiding. 12 hours yesterday and another 10 today working on the off-road track. I didn't even get a chance to PET my sailplanes today. We have about 10 more hours of "tuning" to do and the track will be done. I did finally cry uncle and busted out the T-Maxx and played for a bit. I don't think I could fly if I had the energy right now. I only have a couple of fingers that aren't bleeding from all the abuse the last two days has given them. The worst thing was when my son-in-law dropped my daughter's camera which I then proceeded to run over with the tractor. We'll be shopping for a new one for her or we won't live to hear the end of it. 6300 grass plugs in thanks to the grandkids help. Tomorrow I have hopes of finishing up some planting and then some quiet time with the wife. I hope at least someone is getting some soaring in.
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Old Apr 11, 2009, 09:48 PM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,316 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie Shaw
Seems to me someone is doing the me too thing..
It is possible some of the recent threads clammor kicked some action into gear, but bear in mind that the LSF officers don't have a lot of oppertunity to meet but they did just meet last weekend. So the timing indicates that this program was announced just after many of the officers were at the Toledo modeling show (working the LSF booth).

Ryan
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Old Apr 11, 2009, 11:53 PM
Registered User
jtlsf5's Avatar
United States, CA, Folsom
Joined Jul 2007
2,580 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwoebke
It is possible some of the recent threads clammor kicked some action into gear, but bear in mind that the LSF officers don't have a lot of oppertunity to meet but they did just meet last weekend. So the timing indicates that this program was announced just after many of the officers were at the Toledo modeling show (working the LSF booth).

Ryan
Actually all four of us, and we took advantage of it to act on some old business from last year, namely the proposals. A get together like this doesn't happen often with the three time zone difference between Mike/Ed/Jim, and me.

Comments on the proposals from LSF members are encouraged on the LSF website, www.silentflight.org.

JT
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Old Apr 13, 2009, 12:45 PM
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FDNYJERY's Avatar
LONGWOOD, FLORIDA
Joined Aug 2003
108 Posts
[B]STEVE ,just a quick question . when we complete the copper level, whom do we send the paperwork to for credit for completing the level?? fdnyjery
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Old Apr 13, 2009, 08:52 PM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
I guess for now, me. I better check into a mailbox. If you have a way to scan it you may e-mail it to me. I better get myself set up for some forms coming my way.
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The LSF was looking into this before I knew what the LSF was. Neither of us is copying the other and there is no animosity between us. We need to get back to our own program here though guys. If we don't start talking about what WE'RE doing there's going to be a problem shortly when the first people finish copper and there's no bronze finished yet. The LSF board has been very kind and generous in offering their assistance in my endevours with the SSP. Let's thank them and move along.
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Now I need some slope tasks for bronze. Give me some actual tasks you would like to see implemented.
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Since Thermaler has so graciously offered web space I thought maybe we could post our membership role there. Membership numbers to be issued by the order in which you turn in your copper form. (snail-mail or e-mail)
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Old Apr 14, 2009, 06:30 PM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
I have posted the working copy for bronze level on the first page of the thread. Comments and suggestions are being taken. Please take the time to look at it and post replies and suggestions. I have hopes of finalizing it by the end of next week.
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Before you all start flooding me with questions on the precision flight and ladder flight stuff. (I know you're going to have questions) I will be posting a Task Requirements Sheet to answer your questions. Please hold off until then to ask your questions.
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Has anyone completed any of their Copper Level tasks yet? I'm just curious. The weather here is so bad flying isn't even a consideration as yet. Hopefully that will change soon though.
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Old Apr 15, 2009, 07:32 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
Electric guys: I told you I would have you involved from the beginning of the program. It took me an extra week so you will be starting fashionably late, I apologize for that. I simply wanted to see what the LSF and others had come up with before making up my mind what to use in the SSP. For full details see the Task Requirements Form on page 1 of this thread. Basically you will be launching using a 30 second or aprox. 600' altitude limit. You must fly in only one general direction until "POWER DOWN". Flying all over under power for 30 seconds to find lift will be considered unfair play and void the flight. Starting a soaring flight from a powered flight other than specified, WILL NOT be allowed. Example: If you're out just cruising around under power and suddenly find lift you MAY NOT simply power down and start timing a flight. You would be required to land and then relaunch using the 30 second, 600', one (1) general direction rules before starting your flight. Basically you will be using an "invisible winch". No recorders, no shut offs and no charts to send in. This is where honesty and integrity come into play. Like so many of these tasks in all of the programs, honesty and integrity are what makes them work. While I like the proposal the LSF made, I want to keep this program as simple as possible for now. Cost was not so much of a deciding factor as the desire to keep it simple and get more people involved. Thanks for being patient with me.

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I am thinking about a use for those charting devices such as Z-Log but I have to check on something first. It will however pertain to all aspects of the SSP.
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I have posted a working copy of the Task Requirements Form on page one. I will have the rest finished shortly. It is a good idea to check back every so often to see what has been added. Once complete it will show "final version" on the file name just like the copper level. At that time a PDF version will be posted as well.
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Old Apr 15, 2009, 04:45 PM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
I finally found a PDF converter that worked for me. The files from now on will be posted as PDF files.
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The Bronze and Silver levels are done and posted now. The Task Requirements Form is finished up to the Silver level requirements as well. If you see any corrections or clarifications that need to be made let me know.
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Old Apr 15, 2009, 05:19 PM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,316 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boone
Electric guys: I told you I would have you involved from the beginning of the program.
I don't know if you care/want feedback on this but I happened to browse through your basic rules. You might re-consider the accidental prop action from nulling the flight. For whatever reason it is pretty typical for an electric glider to occasionally "spin" the prop. Either it does not brake properly or sometimes you get a glitch and get a momentary spin of the prop. This does not help the flight and in fact hinders it because a spinning prop is very draggy.

Just thought I'd throw that out there for you since I know you don't fly electric stuff.

Personally 30 seconds to climb to 600 feet seems a bit short to me but then I'm cheap.

Ryan
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