While I'm waiting for more input for bronze level slope tasks, I'm going to start working on the rule book. This will give details on what will and won't be allowed to achieve your tasks, the program's goals and all kinds of stuff. Copper level is pretty self explanitory. I will be setting the standards for launching, landing, precision flight, ladder tasks, X country. You're going to need this when you start bronze level. I told you it was going to get interesting didn't I? Easy way out, PFFT, I wish. If you feel you're not being challenged enough, speak up, I'm more than willing to take it up a notch or two.

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I keep hoping that we'll get some interest from other parts of the world. Any of you guys want to chime in feel free.

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I've been working in the background with some people who have been helping to make this work. It's actually pretty cool that they've all stepped up and done some crazy amounts of work behind the scenes to make this work. Some have asked to stay anonymous. I want to thank them one and all for their kind words and generosity.

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Anyone know an easier way to make forms? Using word is killing me.

Originally Posted by Windependence

I would counter that the SSP does stand for Sportsman Soaring Program. If I want to fly my plane like a hotliner or like a traditional gasser I certainly can, but I do not consider it a glider when I am doing it. Wayne

Hey, Wayne. I actually like the way you clarified the point, by pointing out that this is intended to be a SOARING association. That will be the rationale offered to e-pilots who say that they are NOT represented by this group.

My concern was more that this could turn into the same kind of thing as "that other group," with a large segment of the pilots saying they don't feel represented. Telling them that soaring is what you do after the motor is turned off, is actually, I think, a good idea. It's a fair, clearly defined example of a parameter entirely within the pilot's control. And it can be applied to limited motor runs of any kind of power; electric, gas, or even rubber. Motorized launch allowed. Motor control during flight isn't. No matter how good you are at using your motor, this is about SOARING.

But I do think it was part of what really should be looked at NOW, at the beginning, rather than trying to make decisions about it later.

Everybody cool now?

Nightowl

edited to add: Steve, you know anything about Excel? It's a spread sheet program, but because of that, its easier to make boxes and columns. (But I'm not very good with it.)

This is why I have to play catch up and get some kind of guidelines drawn up. If I was planning to start an organization from the start, I would have been better prepared. Due to the fact I (like many others) was only making a few suggestions I came to the gun fight carrying a knife. My bad. However, this is a soaring organization. It will include E-soaring and I'm positive it can be done. It will be used in a powered launch type of way though. Otherwise, IMHO it falls under E-flight and the AMA and parkfliers can take care of that. Not that you can't do both mind you, but for this program it WILL be a means of launching nothing more. Powering back up for any reason will negate the flight. I'm not sure time will be the answer. Although I have a couple of thoughts there as well. There's some stuff in the works that I'm looking into. It seems like the best solution over all. I'll be getting back to you soon on that. In the mean time my sugar is dropping and I need food. Plus the wife needs some game time while I make supper. Ok, buy supper more like.

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I have Excel but have never used it so I'm clueless where to begin.

Gotcha Nightowl:
I really wasn't getting upset and I apologize if it appeared that way. We've both been saying the same thing in different ways. I especially like the open minded way in which this whole thing has "gotten off the ground."
Thom

Steve (and all),
As Bill Snow mentioned, a slope pilot specific achievement program is soon to be rolled out that will be strictly for that discipline of soaring. Have you considered orienting the SSP program to thermal and TD flying only? You could specialize in various forms of thermal flying with various methods of launch including winch, electric and handlaunch. That way, those who have no desire for standing on a slope for hours on end could concentrate on thermal flying and those who want to work the slope can do just that!
I give you credit for taking on this endeavor as we have put many hours into getting the slope program up and running. Good luck!
Personally, I certainly would like to see all forms of soaring working together to further the advancement of our sport. Being a SIG (special interest group) of LSF and to a greater extent the AMA would be nice to see develop with both programs. I definitely do not want to see the core LSF program change or be diluted from it's original concept. (In my lifetime, I hope to achieve Level V as has been historically scripted, because I feel it is a true accomplishment of the hobby, a benchmark achieved by only an exceptional group.) Having additional programs of achievement makes sense for those who feel the standard LSF program is beyond their own practical abilities to accomplish and, to me, would be a welcome addition to the LSF achievement program.
Jim C

Originally Posted by wsnowfall

there are limiters such as zlog which shut down the motor at any determined height. so i could punch in say 400 feet, the equivalent of an averge winch launch. this unit is $95. maybe its too complicated for some. if you look at the threads about subtracting motor run seconds from hang time. some of the winners are under 10 sec.

Are you sure that's Z-Log? I have one and I don't remember it doing that.

Originally Posted by Steve Boone

... It will include E-soaring and I'm positive it can be done. It will be used in a powered launch type of way though. Otherwise, IMHO it falls under E-flight and the AMA and parkfliers can take care of that. Not that you can't do both mind you, but for this program it WILL be a means of launching nothing more. Powering back up for any reason will negate the flight. ...

Sounds fine to me - when I originally asked about inclusion, that's exactly what I was thinking. Oh, and about the difference in launch height of various e-powered planes ? Well, its the same in full scale ... the gold distance award is the same if you do it in an open Cirrus or a 1-26

Say NightOwl,

I saw nothing offensive in any of your comments. This is, and has been nothing but thought out, well manored discussion about a new program. Please do not think that I have been offended. One of the great limitations of communicating through the internet is the lack of voice and body language.

Now call me a ham fisted pilot and we might be getting close to offense but not a basic, civil discussion of ideas. Oh wait, I called myself a ham fisted pilot somewhere else on RC Groups so not even that would be offensive to me. You will have to try much harder.

Wayne

Originally Posted by Windependence

One of the great limitations of communicating through the internet is the lack of voice and body language.

Wayne

This is absolutely the truth! If we ever meet in person, you will discover that many of my friends describe me as one of the most laid-back people they know. But leaning back in my chair, my arthritic hands cupped around my warming coffee cup, a cigarette parked in the corner of my mouth, and a slow Texas drawl, just doesn't come across in print.

I do a lot of "What if....? " "Have you thought about...?" And I find in print too many people seem to focus on the "....?" part, instead of seeing the question "Have you thought about?"

The only positions I have been actively advocating is that a bunch of us should agree on what it means to be a good sailplane pilot, outside of winning contests against other pilots, and that it would be nice if people who can meet that criteria have the right to put a sticker on their plane or their field box or their hat or jacket that says "Hey, this guy is a darned good glider pilot!" that fellow pilots can recognize. Criteria that enough of their fellow pilots agreed on that it means something.

That, and that it doesn't take a fellow pilot to read a stop watch or use a tape measure to see if you have met some of those criteria, something that is an issue to me because of my distance (isolation?) from other pilots.

Nightowl

I think that we should limit the scope of the SSP to non powered soaring flight FOR THE MOMENT.
I am seeing a large amount of work done with a large amount still to be done and adding more to the inbox will only slow things down.
Keep up the good work and kindly dialog guys, I am pulling for you 'cause we are all in this together.

Joe

Originally Posted by TheNightowl

That, and that it doesn't take a fellow pilot to read a stop watch or use a tape measure to see if you have met some of those criteria, something that is an issue to me because of my distance (isolation?) from other pilots.

Please tell me you won't leave us then when you see the ladder task in bronze level. I just want to incorperate as many of the ideas being put forth as possible. Due to the fact I'm extremely reclusive and I fly alone a lot as I have my own runway it's going to take me some time to progress. A lot of my flights won't count since there's a lot of times I have no witness around. However, with the one witness requirement (at least in the beginning) and the easy requirements for what constitutes a witnes your needs and mine shouldn't be a hold back I hope.

As for the electric guys. They're coming in on the ground floor. They've been some of our most interested people as they've been left out in the cold by the other programs. The solution is close. They may arrive a week or so late. I'm sorry about that, truely I am. God I hate keeping the "cat in the bag". As soon as I shake it up a bit more I'll release the info. I have to wait a bit out of respect for some people in the background helping us along. I do not intent to make enemies if possible this early in the game. (or ever if we can help it) I think the solution is fair and I have an idea as well. Although my idea may be rejected as unfair by some. I'm going to let the majority vote on that one. I need to get a mission statement done so I can say, "It's our mission to give everyone that wants to soar a place to be recognized". The thought of writing bylaws makes me cringe.

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On an unrelated note: This is my "green weekend" of the year. I encourage everyone to do something that can help to save our planet. I personally am going to plant another 50 trees and 6300 grass plugs to green up the planet. There's another 100 or so trees in the works. I'm trying to top my 142 trees I planted last year. Yes, I'm one of those tree huggin' kinda guys. I've already cleaned the 1/8 mile stretch of roadside by my house. Unfortunatly all the dumba**es of the world keep throwing their crap out the window and messing it back up. No respect any more it seems. And no, I'm not one of those one weekend a year people. I do stuff all year to do my part. This is just my first big weekend.

I don't think I'd like to see the required purchase of an altitude limiter/motor shutoff device for our tasks. At nearly $100 they'd be pretty expensive on many budgets these days.

However, I've been wanting to get an "Eagle Tree" stand-alone altimeter for a variety of reasons. Not being the sharpest pencil in the drawer, it has just occurred to me that with a series of timed motor runs I could determine how long it takes my e-Lil' Bird to reach whatever standard launch height we decide upon. At only $40 and with a number of uses (for me anyway) it seems like a good way to insure that I'm working with proper launch heights.

In fact, with some test winch/hi-start launches, one would be helpful for us to determine our standard launch height for electric sailplanes.

What do you guys think?

Thom

Steve,
Z-Log does has an altitude specific device with logger available now, look at www.kennedycomposites.com

Marc

I can't seem to find that feature. I see nothing in the instructions for mod 3 or 4 that say it will shut down your motor at a specified altitude. Please point me to it so I can check it out. Thanks.