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Old Jan 26, 2010, 12:26 PM
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
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I'm still plugging away. There's no way to get this exactly even compared to the thermal duration side. However, I'm happy with this new approach. A4 isn't done of course. I just wanted to get everyones reactions before putting too much time in it just to possible throw it out. The two final slope task sets are re-done to show the new task sets. Silver would then include landings, timed flight w/A4, Laps (F3F or similar), limbo, ladder, R1, and either R2 or DS laps in a set time. This will complete the main program and then the advanced slope stuff is all that is left as we have the advanced TD pretty much sorted out already. As far as slope goes. This puts things on a better learning curve. You learn the maneuvers individually, then link them a couple, then 3 at a time in a pass, then put all the passes together to make a routine. The linked sets can be in any order as long as the link itself is done as listed. A routine will of course be done as it's written.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 06:57 PM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
1,284 Posts
Looks do-able and consistent with what you want the program to do. Are you planning on spelling out the manuevers or pointing them to where to find the definitions?
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 07:04 PM
founder of the SSP
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
I think pointing them to a good source, at least for now. My workload is all I can take right now. There's plenty of info right here on R/C Groups to tell them how to do maneuvers. The link to aresti made simple on our site is a good read and will help them as well when we start mapping things out as well. I find the visual of aresti makes life so much easier. When people "see" what you're saying it seems to make more sense to them.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 09:33 PM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
1,284 Posts
Great. So when can we start?
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Old Jan 27, 2010, 08:36 AM
founder of the SSP
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by corsha99 View Post
Great. So when can we start?
Right now.
************************************************** ************************************************** ***********************
Guys,
I'm sorry the re-write has taken as long as it has. Life sometimes gets in the way of play.
With so many people wanting the program to go in different directions we constantly have to find the middle ground. This is what we've come up with and hopefully it will satisfy as many as possible. There will be no more changes to Bronze. This is it's final version. Thank you for your patience and support. The main program should be able to be finished in short order now that we have an idea where slope is going.
Steve Boone
President / Founder
Sportsman's Soaring Program

This message has been sent via e-mail to everyone working on bronze level along with your new form. Anything that you have done already just transfer over to the new form or include the old form with the new one when you send it in. Hopefully the re-write to put the "this or that" style and slope back in the program, along with dividing the program up into three parts was worth the extra work and wait. If you feel the main program is a bit easy, wait until you see the advanced course. We plan to get back to what we wanted to see originally. The workload is going to get MUCH harder and more involved. After much thought and consideration, Joe and I agreed that this would actually make for a more rounded program. It was a tough choice to go back so far and start over though. We hope you all like it.
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Old Jan 27, 2010, 09:54 AM
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
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SILVER LEVEL:We have 7 task sets some of which are done. Here's your chance to voice what else you would like to see. So far for slope we have:
1 landings (5)
2 LIMBO (L2) (3)
3 (2) 30 minute slope flights (A4)
4 (2) ladder slope flights 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 minute
5 aerobatice routine (R1)
6 ?
7 ?
Personally I would like to lose the landings and do 5 limbos instead. They're more fun and challenging as well. This would leave 3 open task sets. I think a laps in a set time for one, the second routine (R2) and some kind of DS challenge. Maybe "x" amount of circuits in a set time.
How does this sound? Any other ideas? Please don't hold back. This will be the final stage of the main program and shouldn't be too easy. We also want to hear from everyone asap so we can get it done. Don't worry about whether your idea will get shot down. Mine do all the time and I'm supposed to be in charge. Let's work together to finish the program up. I was looking back and I realized it was April not February I started this program. I would love to have it completely finished and in place before the 1 year anniversary.
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Old Jan 27, 2010, 08:48 PM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
1,284 Posts
Definately agree with the F3F type laps and DS tasks. Both of these should be done at least a couple of times, if not more. I would also do more limbo passes anyway.

Dont know about having a second aerobatic routine unless it is a real doozy. How about some timed flights with a landing within a certain distance and within +- xx seconds of the time, kind of like the competition TD task.
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Old Jan 28, 2010, 08:22 AM
founder of the SSP
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
We could set both the F3F and DS (dynamic soaring) with a set time. Say "x" amount of minutes, three times. Then on each attempt add more laps/circuits so it's actually one task set that progressively gets harder. Timed flights would be fine by me as we already have them set up. We would just have to decide which level of timed flights to use and add it in. Makes my job a lot easier.
Any more suggestions guys? How about some times / lap suggestions for the F3F and DS?
For you TD guys: Advanced TD is down to the fine tuning of points for the contest style. Once we do the math, all three levels can be posted.
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Old Jan 28, 2010, 09:47 AM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
1,284 Posts
For the F3F task, I would keep it a consistent 10 laps for a total of 1km and just vary the time. this is mainly because F3F is always 10 laps. A previous post of mine, I had suggested times from 75 to 55 secs for the bronze level. For a silver level task, I still think this is a good time range for people that don't have the course beeper equipment and are relying on flags being waved. Wouldn't go any faster than 55 seconds, especially since some hill records for F3F are slower than 50 seconds.

For the DS task, nothing wrong with keeping the time the same and increasing the number of laps needing to be done in that time.

For reference, see what I posted in #814.

Is 3 times for each task enough? thinking in relation to the TD side of the "or" task, are the tasks going to be comparable.
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Old Jan 28, 2010, 12:51 PM
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
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I guess that depends on hard hard the laps/circuits are to hit in the given time. I know nothing of these tasks, you guys are going to have to help to set it up.
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Old Jan 28, 2010, 02:57 PM
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
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It looks like we finished Bronze just in time. Congratulations Buddy and Lance members number 11 & 12. Those guys in the warm weather states sure are lucky!!!
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Old Jan 28, 2010, 08:10 PM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
1,284 Posts
for the F3F task, definately take what I wrote in the previous post of mine. Just need to resolve how many times to repeat it.

For the DS task, I will try to get out and see what some of the guys can do around here on a marginal DS site and get back to you. Anyone else out there got some ideas for a DS task?
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Last edited by corsha99; Jan 28, 2010 at 08:16 PM.
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Old Jan 30, 2010, 07:02 AM
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
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I had a couple of questions come up. I thought I would answer them here so everyone could get the info at once.
Question: just noticed that the G&R task is TD only. Was this the intent again? Previous versions had it TD or slope
Answer: The G&R is Thermal duration only now. It just wasn't working out trying to fit it into slope.
Suggestion: Aerobatics not to require a judging team. Remember there are many parts of the world where there are only a few people in a group. What level of performance is required? A1/2/3 I suggest “recognizable” would be OK. More difficult requirements for the R routines.
Answer: Recognizable was/is the intent. Like most of this and any program for that matter honesty and integrity are it's foundation. If you think something wasn't done very well or it was sloppy, re-peat it. This isn't for a gold metal or to earn a living. People have a tendency to take this stuff WAY too seriously. It's for fun. If your buddy does a loop and it's sloppy laugh at him, throw a little trash talk his way and then help him to perfect his technique to do it to an acceptable level.
Question: I assume you will be expanding the task requirements Section 25 for those experiencing aerobatics for the first time.
Answer: Already done thru Bronze level. We will be adding more for Silver level. What's going to happen is that in Bronze we had you learn the basic moves in A1 & A2. Then in A3 we linked two moves together in a pass, with the exception of the outside loop. In A4 we will be linking 3 moves in a pass together. The passes themselves must be done as listed. However, they can be done in any order as long as they're all done in the time listed. The next step is routines (R1-R?). Here you will be linking everything together to form a routine. You will fly it totally as written from start to finish.
Suggestion: Limbo needs more information; put it on the score sheet
Answer: This may fit for Limbo. However, by referring people to the requirements section it forms a good habit of looking there for answers. Plus, sometimes the info just doesn't fit in the allotted space.
Suggestion: Set a one or two year time for all programs to be revisited.
Answer: We always had intended to do this. However,what we found out in short order is that nobody likes things to change after they started. That's one reason this has taken so long to do. (9 months so far) I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it would be down the road several years and at that point will require a vote from the membership.
Suggestion: A4 could include different combinations of A3 maneuvers. Could set a time limit for them to be completed. (Only 2 shown on proposal)
Answer: That was because it was in the developement stage. There will be plenty more. I just didn't want to do a bunch of work to throw it out. Now that everyone is on board I've already started planning A4.
Suggestion:SilverLevel: loose the landings, if you can’t do them by now pack it in.
Answer: Slope being different from TD will no longer require landings. There really is no need to keep doing them in slope.
Suggestion: I am not sure that I follow what is proposed for DS. X laps in a certain time are not feasible as different sites will have larger or smaller circuits depending on the terrain.
Answer: We're still trying to figure this one out. That's one of the things we've asked everyone here to help us solve. I don't fly slope, so we're asking for help to get DS (dynamic soaring) added in a way that will work.

I hope this update helps.
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Old Jan 30, 2010, 07:14 AM
founder of the SSP
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Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
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A reminder or in case you weren't aware. I have decals available with our logo on them. They're on automotive grade vinyl and are UV protected. If you're interested they sell for $1 + S&H each. (my cost) They're a great way to help get the word out about the program. I've had one on my car and plane wing since I got them this spring. They still look like new. See our website for a picture. They also come with the "level" labels so you can show your current level as well.
Occationally I use my secret knowledge and call aspirants and members to get feedback on what they think of the program. So far it has all been possitive. (maybe they were all just being polite ) If you're enjoying the program then please spread the word. Get others involved and help us grow. I would love to see a surge of new aspirants. I know there are a few who have been waiting for the program to be finished before starting. I hope we hear from them soon as the main program will be finished soon. Actually both the TD programs will be done soon. Advanced slope will be a bit longer as it had a late start.
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Last edited by Steve Boone; Jan 30, 2010 at 07:21 AM.
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Old Jan 30, 2010, 01:38 PM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
2,220 Posts
The Decals look like Steve's avatar, I have doctored mine with the red lettering so you guys would not confuse Steve and I Mine looks great on the back of my van and the wings of my planes
Steve is right if you like it spread the word because just like the busniess world one happy customer wil tell two people, one unhappy customer will tell ten so help us balance that out some
Thank you guys for your support and input, it is slowing down the graying of Steve's hair

Joe
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