HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by Steve Boone, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Old Nov 15, 2009, 09:30 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
565 Posts
Wow!

I was away for a few days and really got behind on the discussion. Let's see if I can summarize my responses to a few of the issues.

Build Your Own:
Great idea. However, I agree that introducing it earlier in the program would be better than saving it 'til the end. Secondly, I agree that it should not be restricted to a woody. I've built several woodies, but I also respect the craftsmanship I see with composites. I think allowing a self-build with any technology will do just as much to advance the hobby.

Bring Another Along:
I agree that it would be nice to get this going sooner in the process. However, this may recreate one of the problems that remote pilots have with the LSF. Perhaps the Internet will help us deal with this.


Get some more expert input:

I think it says in Proverbs that in many counselors there is safety. So I agree with the suggestion of getting more feedback from established experts. I'm game to try pretty much anything, but I don't know how feasible the more difficult tasks will be. I'm new to spot landings and multiple long flights in a single day. Although I've been flying casually for almost 30 years it took me the better part of this summer to finish Copper.

Maybe Gordon's idea to redo a single flight rather than the entire task set is a good compromise. I think we want something challenging, but which allows accomplished flyers to continue progressing forward.

Speaking for myself, I'll probably have just several days each summer to attempt a higher level ladder or A-Frame task set. Much more than that and my absense from the family would discourage my sons rather than encourage them into a great hobby. I'm not asking that things be changed to suit me. I'm just stating the current reality. I'll keep trying when I just miss a hard task set, but the current rules may spread even the Bronze level out over several years.


Steve and Joe - Thanks again for your efforts and please keep this going. The open discussion will bring in balancing perspectives and the final program will be better.

Tim
SSP #9
2motheus is offline Find More Posts by 2motheus
Last edited by 2motheus; Nov 15, 2009 at 09:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Nov 16, 2009, 06:42 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,552 Posts
Tim: Check your e-mail for your form. If there is a problem, e-mail me at info@sportsmanssoaringprogram.com or ssp@fourway.com so I can verify I have the correct e-mail.
************************************************** ************************************************** *******
There's been a lot of issues lately on the things we wanted to try. So here's your chance to sit in my shoes for a day so to speak. Design a Gold Level yourself as you would like to see it. Post it in it's entirety not just some random ideas and we'll see what everyone thinks. At the very least it will help us to see what you all think a "level" should look like.
Steve Boone is offline Find More Posts by Steve Boone
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 16, 2009, 08:30 AM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
2,104 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by knormang View Post
I never could see the need for landing points. If you can hit the same field you took off from, fair enough! If landings are used to thin out the top ten contestants, that is one thing, but we are not competing- are we?I reckon for a self imposed test a one metre circle is as sharp as we need to get to prove we have control over our models. Ken G.

We are looking to improve ones flying skills, ask any pilot in the full size world and he will tell you it is the hardest part of flying.
PRACTICE, LEARN, GET BETTER!!!
Should a member of the SSP decide/find time/money to compete they will do VERY well having participated in the SSP.

Joe
Thermaler is offline Find More Posts by Thermaler
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 16, 2009, 11:14 AM
Registered User
Ralph Weaver's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN USA
Joined Nov 2000
2,305 Posts
I think landings should count, but award the high score for landing within a meter or so. The only way to consitantly nail 6" landings is to dork - electrics and woodies will be at a disadvantage to moldies that are pupose desinged to dork.
Ralph Weaver is offline Find More Posts by Ralph Weaver
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 16, 2009, 11:49 AM
Making wood fly since 2007
Windependence's Avatar
USA, MN, Rochester
Joined Mar 2008
2,473 Posts
I tend to agree with Ralph on this one. There is no way in I am going to dork land my electric or my woodie so a 6" target seems mighty small. If any of you out there are accomplishing this without dorking please let me know how to do it.

The other aspect I tend to agree with Ralph on is the woodie build. Now I was one of the people who suggested the woodie build, but I specified woodie only because I believed that building with wood was more accessable to the majority of people. Personnaly I would have no issue with a home build composite plane being used for the needed tasks. To me the intent of the task was to build something and possibly come up with a new design or building skill that could be shared with the modeling community. I was not thinking designs from the 70's nor was I thinking inferior plane. There are some modern wood planes that are very competetive, some are even full house ships. Wood does not equal antiquated.

Wayne
Windependence is offline Find More Posts by Windependence
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 16, 2009, 04:23 PM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
2,104 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windependence View Post
I tend to agree with Ralph on this one. There is no way in I am going to dork land my electric or my woodie so a 6" target seems mighty small.

Wayne

That equates to a 12" circle, pretty easy if you have done the practice. Flaps or spoilers don't hurt any.


Joe
Thermaler is offline Find More Posts by Thermaler
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 17, 2009, 08:25 AM
Registered User
Ralph Weaver's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN USA
Joined Nov 2000
2,305 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermaler View Post
That equates to a 12" circle, pretty easy if you have done the practice. Flaps or spoilers don't hurt any.
Joe
That's very dependant on the quality of your flying field. Part of the attraction of this program is that those of us who don't have the time to travel to contests or even good fields can still participate. The fields I can get to are either about 12" deep thistles (why I tend to fly molded) or hard dirt. A 12" landing is pretty tough on either and gives a significant advantage to those lucky enough to have soft grass to land on.
Ralph Weaver is offline Find More Posts by Ralph Weaver
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 17, 2009, 08:53 AM
launch height can't fix stupid
United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Jun 2005
1,230 Posts
I have a site where I would be landing on rock, bigger rocks, or solid rock. 12" is totally do able with the correct sailplane. Only question is if you can re-use it Have another site with very tall weeds including thistle. I just stomp down my landing area to make it more user freindly. Once stomped down, all those weeds work better than any landing skeg could.

I will be the first to admit that the program is no longer for me past the bronze level. Even so I don't hold anything against Steve and others for making this program a reality. It is impossible to make everyone happy with something like this and I would not bother even trying as it will never happen. So be like me and make your own challenges to judge yourself against and see if you are improving. I will be borrowing aspects of the other levels to do but not everything. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes......

Cory
SSP#2
corsha99 is online now Find More Posts by corsha99
Last edited by corsha99; Nov 24, 2009 at 08:45 AM. Reason: meant bronze instead of copper
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 17, 2009, 02:20 PM
Registered User
maguro's Avatar
United States, DE, Bear
Joined Apr 2007
1,764 Posts
This may be shameless self promotion, but I thought I'd throw this out.

Anyone looking for an easy to build "trainer" type of sailplane, might want to consider building a Blu-Guppy. It is built primarily from blue foam. A bit of wood is needed for the fuselage cage and spars, and three carbon fiber arrow shafts (about $4 each at Wal-Mart) finish out the building materials. I designed the Blu-Guppy to prove that a 96" wing can be built with the KFM3 airfoil, that is strong enough, light enough, and provides sufficient lift over drag to be used as a sailplane wing. I believe that the Blu-Guppy accomplishes these goals, and looks good to boot.

While flight testing the Blu-Guppy, I got my best ever spot landing (under 1") along with a 15 minute flight (I'm working on Bronze).

Here is the link to the build log and a photo of the finished plane: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1043494

Roger
maguro is offline Find More Posts by maguro
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 17, 2009, 06:09 PM
Registered User
L-Spatz's Avatar
Redcliff Alberta
Joined Jul 2008
584 Posts
That looks very cool, Roger , well exept for that "spinny thing" on the front.

Ken
SSP #6
L-Spatz is offline Find More Posts by L-Spatz
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 17, 2009, 06:25 PM
Registered User
L-Spatz's Avatar
Redcliff Alberta
Joined Jul 2008
584 Posts
Gold level :

1 2 hour TD landing within 1m
10km Goal and Return landing within 3m
20km X/C landing within 3m


Three flight's,so as to keep in line with the other group.

WHAM, BAM, THANK YOU MAME.


Ken
SSP #6
L-Spatz is offline Find More Posts by L-Spatz
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2009, 06:43 PM
Registered User
maguro's Avatar
United States, DE, Bear
Joined Apr 2007
1,764 Posts
Ken,

I call the shiny thing my "auto winch". No foot pedal required, and no need to retrieve the parachute.
maguro is offline Find More Posts by maguro
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2009, 07:43 PM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,552 Posts
Come on guys. Where's all the Gold level proposals? Just one so far and only 3 tasks in it.
Steve Boone is offline Find More Posts by Steve Boone
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2009, 07:56 PM
Registered User
L-Spatz's Avatar
Redcliff Alberta
Joined Jul 2008
584 Posts
JEE Steve, maybe it's easyer to complain about you and Joe's idea's than to come up with something of their own?

I thought 3 flight's would make most everyone elated. Guess not.


Ken
SSP #6
L-Spatz is offline Find More Posts by L-Spatz
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2009, 08:33 PM
Ricky Windsock
aussief3b's Avatar
USA, FL, Sanford
Joined Nov 2008
1,597 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Spatz View Post
JEE Steve, maybe it's easyer to complain about you and Joe's idea's than to come up with something of their own?
I thought 3 flight's would make most everyone elated. Guess not.
Ken
SSP #6
Clearly I haven't seen you post a truer word than this Ken. Absolutely right on! You make a great point. It is easier to be critical than to actually think up something new. The incredible amount of thought, time, energy and effort that Steve and Joe have put in has resulted in the beginnings of something great. They are to be applauded for their selfless effort and toil. I would never want to take any of this kudos away from these guys by creating my own levels. This is their program and rightly so. Rather as an experienced flier I would prefer to encourage moderation so the program actually succeeds. I hope these two great guys come up with a solution that is practical and attractive enough to encourage a helluva lot more participation than the 5 or 6 of us who have posted the most in this thread so far.
Gordon
aussief3b is offline Find More Posts by aussief3b
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old Buzzard's Soaring Video or Book Gvflyer Thermal 20 Mar 04, 2005 03:58 AM
For Sale: Old Buzzard's Soaring Book bobh344 Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 1 Feb 21, 2005 09:09 PM
Old Buzzard's Soaring Book clayjrw Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 31 Dec 20, 2003 08:17 PM
FS: OLD BUZZARD'S SOARING BOOK pic here & on Ebay TTT1111 Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 0 Nov 17, 2002 10:54 AM
WTB Dave Thornburg's Old Buzzard's Soaring Book Mauilvr Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 2 Jul 07, 2002 11:29 PM