HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by Steve Boone, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Old Nov 11, 2009, 08:26 AM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
2,096 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boone View Post
What's every one think? 30 minutes from launch time or landing time? Makes me no difference. I see good and bad in both ways. Let me know so I can get it nailed down. It's time to get on to Gold Level.
To simulate a contest I would say from landing time.

Joe

Who might get two days of flying inthis weekend if I do not have to work Saturday!!!
Thermaler is offline Find More Posts by Thermaler
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Nov 11, 2009, 11:18 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,552 Posts
The VP is still alive? I thought we lost you there, Joe. After landing it is. I think it will allow for a better change in the air as well. That will make for bettering ones skills as well.
Steve Boone is offline Find More Posts by Steve Boone
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2009, 03:20 PM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
2,096 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boone View Post
The VP is still alive? I thought we lost you there, Joe. After landing it is. I think it will allow for a better change in the air as well. That will make for bettering ones skills as well.

If it is true that only the good die young I am going to be VERY old!!

Joe
Thermaler is offline Find More Posts by Thermaler
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2009, 08:03 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,552 Posts
GOLD LEVEL: Here's the preliminary for Gold Level. If you have any ideas for the open spots, speak up. I want this one done in short order. Since most of it is just finishing off other task sets in the advanced and expert difficulties this should be an easy one to knock out. Also, I would like to "maybe" have part of the 2M be required as 2M woody only. I don't want to make it all woody though.
PLATINUM LEVEL: I'm also taking ideas for Platinum Level. If you have anything you would like to see, let us know. These must be extremely difficult and worthy of the final level. This will be a you build, woodie level. It has been requested so much and we, being builders, liked the idea so much we're going to make it happen. You will have to document your build from a kit or plans (no ARF's). Then use your self-built plane(s) to complete the level. All planes being built will have to show documentation that you personally built it.
Steve Boone is offline Find More Posts by Steve Boone
Last edited by Steve Boone; Nov 15, 2009 at 08:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2009, 05:41 PM
SSP#14 aspirant
Soar_dude's Avatar
Fort Lewis, Washington, United States
Joined Feb 2002
1,289 Posts
Steve so this the box of sticks challenge for Platinum level sounds like fun!
Soar_dude is offline Find More Posts by Soar_dude
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2009, 06:13 PM
Registered User
L-Spatz's Avatar
Redcliff Alberta
Joined Jul 2008
584 Posts
Brilliant idea. Is there any bonus point's if it is an original plan? Something drawn from my own exotic mind!!


Ken
SSP #6
L-Spatz is offline Find More Posts by L-Spatz
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2009, 06:36 PM
Registered User
Okanagan Falls. British columbia. Canada
Joined Nov 2006
366 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boone View Post
GOLD LEVEL: Here's the preliminary for Gold Level. If you have any ideas for the open spots, speak up. I want this one done in short order. Since most of it is just finishing off other task sets in the advanced and expert difficulties this should be an easy one to knock out. Also, I would like to "maybe" have part of the 2M be required as 2M woody only. I don't want to make it all woody though.
PLATINUM LEVEL: I'm also taking ideas for Platinum Level. If you have anything you would like to see, let us know. These must be extremely difficult and worthy of the final level. This will be a you build, woodie level. It has been requested so much and we, being builders, liked the idea so much we're going to make it happen. You will have to document your build from a kit or plans (no ARF's). Then use your self-built plane(s) to complete the level. All planes being built will have to show documentation that you personally built it.
No Steve. It can't be all 'woody', then you would not be able to use your Radian eh.!!!!!
knormang is offline Find More Posts by knormang
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2009, 07:55 PM
Ricky Windsock
aussief3b's Avatar
USA, FL, Sanford
Joined Nov 2008
1,595 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by knormang View Post
No Steve. It can't be all 'woody', then you would not be able to use your Radian eh.!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soar_dude
Steve so this the box of sticks challenge for Platinum level sounds like fun!
I seem to have taken upon myself the role of "Mr Moderation" here. I admire the enthusiasm of the few contributors we have here, but you guys have got to keep taking a reality check or this whole program is going to be a white elephant.

What makes any of you think you will EVER get even close to Platinum Level to even need to build a "special" woody plane. You certainly will never have an opportunity to use a Radian to perform Platinum tasks because by the time any of you have actually got to Platinum Level, Radians will only be found in some obscure model museum and we will be in the 22nd century.

The way the task requirements are written you will need to be able to fly your sailplane 7 times consecutively achieving very specific lengthy TD flights and bring EVERY flight to completion within 9" of a spot or you need to start the entire series of flights all over. To spend all day on a good thermal day getting a 15, 20, 25, 30, 25, 20 all landed within 9" of the spot and finally a 15 minute and land 10" from the spot will require a redo of the entire task set.
I personally have never met or seen anybody in this country who could confidently even do 7 in a row like this to that accuracy after flying the required times. Such task sets are simply heart-breakers and 99% of people who attempt such a thing would need to have multiple tries to get it done. Therefore the amount of flying required to try, try and try again will triple from the actual calculated flight times for each advanced and expert task.
Currently the required TD air time is as follows. (without allowing for XC time or 2M challenge?) These numbers alone will scare the majority of possible participants from even getting started.

Copper 2.25 hours
Bronze 8.0 hours
Silver 26 hours
Gold 29 hours

I figure Gold will cost many times the 29 hours to get done - maybe as many as 100 hours of flight times for most experts to beat the tasks set. Many aspirants are going to struggle for years and years trying just to do the Silver Intermediate Add Em Ups you have set. To require 90 minutes of flight time all in the same day with a minimum of 10 min flights twice. and 120 minutes of flight time all in the same day with a minimum of 10 minute flights will be beyond the ability of many who may be looking forward to the "woody" level much later on. They will just give up. And they haven't even gone past Silver.

I am a positive thinking guy who could never be described as a pessimist. Ask any one who knows me. I am not trying to knock the fantastic work done thus far. Just want you all to be real. I feel like a lone voice here trying to persuade a group of incredibly enthusiastic soarers to be moderate and realistic if success with the program is their goal. I don't think I am succeeding and I see this program sinking faster than it has risen from nowhere - unless you guys stop blindly going forward with an unrealistic program.

Steve and Joe need to be congratulated on what they have created. But until they have actually tried the tasks they have set themselves in Silver and Gold they probably have no clue how difficult the program really is. I have tried the landings and I have recorded my dismal results. On 28 separate days this past 10 months I have gone out on a contest day to try to fly 7 consecutive flights of 7, 8 or 10 minutes and land to a spot. Although I won or came second in many of these contests - not one time did I achieve the perfection of 7 maxs and 7 landings within 9 inches. Not even close. Even though I missed maxes and even though I missed landings thank god the contest director did not tell me to start all over!
I want to do your SSP program because I want to be the best contest flier I can be and I see the program as great training for this. I know I will win many contests against the best in my future. Unfortunately I also know that I will never be able to complete the SSP program as it stands.
Gordon
aussief3b is offline Find More Posts by aussief3b
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2009, 10:36 PM
SSP#14 aspirant
Soar_dude's Avatar
Fort Lewis, Washington, United States
Joined Feb 2002
1,289 Posts
I see the Huston Hawks, Smooth Genie Pro's, Bird of Times, SkyBench Oly's getting popular again.

Gordon I am going to say this again. Its not the destination but the journey that is the most fun.
Soar_dude is offline Find More Posts by Soar_dude
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2009, 10:45 PM
Ricky Windsock
aussief3b's Avatar
USA, FL, Sanford
Joined Nov 2008
1,595 Posts
I totally agree. What a phenomenal journey it is when you are part of something big!
aussief3b is offline Find More Posts by aussief3b
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2009, 10:52 PM
Registered User
Okanagan Falls. British columbia. Canada
Joined Nov 2006
366 Posts
Gordon, You are not alone, I shall be lucky if I live long enough to achieve the bronze level. I shall be 88 yrs. old this month so I am running out of time and breath.I shall start next spring and be very happy if I get through copper in one year!You guys who have soared in competitions should be pretty good judges of what is possible and reasonable, so I shall do my little bit and leave the more daunting tasks to you younguns!Good Luck.Aspirant45.
knormang is offline Find More Posts by knormang
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2009, 11:03 PM
Ricky Windsock
aussief3b's Avatar
USA, FL, Sanford
Joined Nov 2008
1,595 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by knormang View Post
Gordon, You are not alone, I shall be lucky if I live long enough to achieve the bronze level. I shall be 88 yrs. old this month so I am running out of time and breath.I shall start next spring and be very happy if I get through copper in one year!You guys who have soared in competitions should be pretty good judges of what is possible and reasonable, so I shall do my little bit and leave the more daunting tasks to you younguns!Good Luck.Aspirant45.
Hey mate,
You are indeed an inspiration to many. I have been inspired upon my return to the hobby by interactions with many who still fly even into their late 80's Harley Michaelis for example is also still doing incredible thiongs for our hobby. We have a local flier who comes out to the field most Saturdays called Hank. He is in his 80's too and he was throwing a DLG around a few weeks ago. I have a fair chance of at least trying to get the Gold level done with 38 years available before I will be at your age. Keep soaring.
Gordon
aussief3b is offline Find More Posts by aussief3b
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 14, 2009, 05:54 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,552 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by knormang View Post
No Steve. It can't be all 'woody', then you would not be able to use your Radian eh.!!!!!
My Radian is 120". To my knowledge, the only stretched Radian out there.

GORDON: It's good to have a devil's advocate so to speak. It does help keep us grounded as you say. At the same time I would like to remind you that the founders of the LSF never thought that their program could "be" finished. They also thought from what I'm told that most would never make it past LIII. The point was to spur further developement of planes and equipment. If you tried to develope that same program today it would never make it. People would throw a fit at flying for 8 hrs on a slope deeming it pointless. Then you would hear, " What next? Make us fly 1 hr TD flights?" Our society is too caught up in instant gratification. Few want to start a program that can't be finished in a year tops. The LSF's founders biggest advantage though was to have created a program, worked out the details, then put it in place. Trying to do it on the fly as we are is what's hurting us the most. Try to make a change to something people have already started, even if it betters the program, is like asking the LSF members to change the program to make it easier, Everybody starts arguing and change just doesn't happen for fear of losing the current membership. That's exacly why the guys working on a slope program for here have asked to get it figured out before announcing what they have in mind. They've seen the way it goes trying to do it publicly. I've been considering some major changes to the task requirements. They would effect no one at this point in time but would allow for us to not have to continue down the slippery slope we're on now of repeating the same task sets to do the "advanced or expert" parts of them. Instead I was thinking of just calling them "D1 and D2" (difficulty 1, etc.) This means there doesn't have to be any more than those as it doesn't automatically imply 4 levels of difficulty. (basic, intermediate, advanced, expert) I've been thinking of dropping the "miss it, repeat it parts. Instead , replacing them with some tasks sets in the end that will require perfect or near perfect times/scores. Lastly, Joe and I are in agreement here. This program was never thought of as a program that will be done by everyone. It was thought of in the same respects as the founders of the LSF. Many may try, most will go far, few will finish the journey, but all will grow from the experience.
Steve Boone is offline Find More Posts by Steve Boone
Last edited by Steve Boone; Nov 14, 2009 at 06:55 AM. Reason: 'cause I wanted to
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 14, 2009, 07:34 AM
Ricky Windsock
aussief3b's Avatar
USA, FL, Sanford
Joined Nov 2008
1,595 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boone View Post
GORDON: I would like to remind you that the founders of the LSF never thought that their program could "be" finished. I've been thinking of dropping the "miss it, repeat it parts. Instead , replacing them with some tasks sets in the end that will require perfect or near perfect times/scores. Lastly, Joe and I are in agreement here. This program was never thought of as a program that will be done by everyone. It was thought of in the same respects as the founders of the LSF. Many may try, most will go far, few will finish the journey, but all will grow from the experience.
All very well said Steve. You will definitely need to change something if anyone is going to enjoy the 2M challenge or "Woody class" tasks.
As for dropping the "miss it and repeat it" bit. You might consider leaving it but just repeat that flight until you get the landing done. Still extremely difficult to do these sets in one day but all the successful flights flown previously are not thrown out because of one landing mistake.
Now answer this question realistically. If the woody part is included in the 5th level of this program how many years of this journey do YOU think it will take for yourself to reach that level of doing the woody bit?
Gordon
aussief3b is offline Find More Posts by aussief3b
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 14, 2009, 07:49 AM
Ricky Windsock
aussief3b's Avatar
USA, FL, Sanford
Joined Nov 2008
1,595 Posts
Just one other thing not already mentioned.
It's also a pity the first appearance of an incentive to get others involved in the SSP does not occur until past the Gold Level.
As most will never pass the gold Level (and if they do it will be many years ahead) you will get no benefit from a rule which encourages others to participate in the program. This is a great idea to include but it should happen at Silver Level or Gold. Requiring a Copper Level flier to be the witness is a well tried and very successful solution.
Gordon
aussief3b is offline Find More Posts by aussief3b
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old Buzzard's Soaring Video or Book Gvflyer Thermal 20 Mar 04, 2005 03:58 AM
For Sale: Old Buzzard's Soaring Book bobh344 Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 1 Feb 21, 2005 09:09 PM
Old Buzzard's Soaring Book clayjrw Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 31 Dec 20, 2003 08:17 PM
FS: OLD BUZZARD'S SOARING BOOK pic here & on Ebay TTT1111 Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 0 Nov 17, 2002 10:54 AM
WTB Dave Thornburg's Old Buzzard's Soaring Book Mauilvr Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 2 Jul 07, 2002 11:29 PM