Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by Steve Boone, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Old Oct 29, 2009, 02:02 AM
Registered User
elcoba's Avatar
Mapleton, Australia
Joined May 2003
21 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radian View Post
The small picture you refer to is called an Avatar. When in "My RCGroups", click the "Edit Avatar" option on the left side. The follow the instructions from there.

Radian,
www.phflyers.com
Thanks Radian. Hopefully this message will now have the required avtar otherwise back to the drawing board!
elcoba is offline Find More Posts by elcoba
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 29, 2009, 10:29 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,538 Posts
Ok, I think it's finally making sense. I have two schools of thought on the subject. One is that there's no need for a normalizer here. 600 perfect time + 100 point perfect landing = 700 perfect score. Electrics have no advantage the way they're set up within the program so that's not an issue. Second is that even though there's no need for a normalizer it would give continuity between non-contest and contest platforms for those who do both or are interested in going from sportsman to competition or vice versa. Also, launching hourly will get shot down by a lot of people as they'll say they don't have that kind of time. 7 rounds is basically spending all day at the field to get that many rounds in. Every 30 minutes might be better.
Steve Boone is offline Find More Posts by Steve Boone
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2009, 11:44 AM
Yep, Naza-controlled Tricopter
tonyestep's Avatar
St. Louis
Joined Apr 2002
1,454 Posts
Here's something to consider with respect to contest vs. non-contest tasks. Using reasonable estimates for the time required to do the G&R tasks, the LSF program in its entirety requires only about 19 hours of non-contest air time, of which 8 hours (42%) are in the one legendary bladder-busting slope flight.

To complete all levels, you have to fly in 24 contests. If the contests have a lot of entries, the points come easily until you get to Level 5, where you have to get 3 wins. Up to that point, the main requirement is participation. Suppose you fly in 6-round contests consisting of 10-minute tasks, and make all your times; then you'll put in 24 hours of air time during contests, for a total of 43 flying hours to complete the entire LSF program from beginning to end. Actually it's less, of course, since you certainly don't have to make all your times to advance.

The fact that contest flying outweighs non-contest tasks, and the disproportionate weight given to large events with lots of entries, were among the reasons cited for wanting an alternative program. Many early comments expressed satisfaction with the general outline of the LSF program but wanted to see the contest requirement replaced with one that would serve a similar end but would not require traveling to a distant event or organizing a large group of competitors.

The phrase "serve a similar end" implies that contests call for certain skills: these include making desperate low saves and recoveries from far downwind, precision on-time landings, and finding lift when you're called upon, while the official clock is running and your altitude is dwindling. Irrespective of the scoring or launch spacing, these are key elements of a good achievement program.
tonyestep is offline Find More Posts by tonyestep
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2009, 12:21 PM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,538 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyestep View Post
The phrase "serve a similar end" implies that contests call for certain skills: these include making desperate low saves and recoveries from far downwind, precision on-time landings, and finding lift when you're called upon, while the official clock is running and your altitude is dwindling. Irrespective of the scoring or launch spacing, these are key elements of a good achievement program.
So which of these has the SSP not addressed so far?
As far as how many flight hours are involved in the two programs. Well all I can say is, we're two different programs. The SSP plans to be a high flight time program with as many aspects of soaring involved as we can manage to make work. If we're not the same as the LSF, so what? The LSF has a good program. It doesn't mean they have the perfect program for everyone. It also doesn't mean that they have the only formula that will work. What it does mean is there are some things they do that may also work here and others that may not.
************************************************** ***************
TITANIUM LEVEL: I have posted the preliminary requirements for Titanium Level. I was so tired of hearing about how bad it would have to be I decided to put an end to it so we could move on. It's pretty much as I always planned it to be. Of course it's not written in stone yet but as far as I'm concerned, it's close.
WEB SITE: I have added some links to the web site for application form issues, contact info for Joe and I, product info inquiries and gallery submission info.
Steve Boone is offline Find More Posts by Steve Boone
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2009, 02:00 PM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,538 Posts
If we go with +1 point a second to task time,-1 point every second over and 100" landing points possible. We can change the task times and/or the number of rounds to change the difficulty. So give me some starting numbers. Task time, rounds, point total. How do you plan on working it if you don't make your point total? Throw out all of the flights and start over?
Steve Boone is offline Find More Posts by Steve Boone
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2009, 02:19 PM
Registered User
Okanagan Falls. British columbia. Canada
Joined Nov 2006
366 Posts
You know, I think that leaving slope soaring out of the program leaves a gap that can only be filled by inserting more TD flights.I remember when I did my level one in LSF way back in the early 1980's that I flew a little model called the Paraphrase.( Anybody else remember that one?)I lived in an East West valley here in British Columbia and my slope was a very short North- south slope sticking out from the main line of hills. It was about50 to 70 yds long, but in a good stiff westerly breeze it kept my little Paraphrase aloft with no trouble. My right and left sweeps were very short, but it was still slope soaring, and I achieved my goal. I think that most aspirants in this program could find a slope not too far away from home, and I would prefer a drive and a change of scenery to fly the odd slope task , preferable to to many repetetive TD tasks.If it means contacting other "slopers" to do this, then you make new friends. Learn from them some of the basics of slope flying and enjoy another aspect of this wonderful sport!I have read and re-read this thread from beginning to end, and I feel that leaving slope out as a requirement or an alternative, just because the dedicated slope flyers have not responded as expected, has made things very difficult for Steve.Perhaps we should revisit this aspect." Variety is the spice of life".Ken .
knormang is offline Find More Posts by knormang
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2009, 05:13 PM
Registered User
Okanagan Falls. British columbia. Canada
Joined Nov 2006
366 Posts
The above observations are in relation to the proposed silver level, of course.
knormang is offline Find More Posts by knormang
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2009, 06:48 PM
Registered User
L-Spatz's Avatar
Redcliff Alberta
Joined Jul 2008
584 Posts
Knormang.
How far are you from Fenie?? There are some Mind blowing slope's just to the south at Morrisy. The Morrisy ridge is a 1,600 ft near vertical face that faces SW. And for the DADDY of them we go to the "Notch" for a 3,000 ft ,give ya the WILLYS just to look over the edge,thrill.

Steve. I like the triple 7 and 10 minute flight's in silver ver.3 . Myself, I will call all three flight's a single task as they need to be combined/averaged to get the "task" total. For those of us that will never see a compatition,it may be less confusing to add the landing component in the next level's.

Ken
SSP #6
L-Spatz is offline Find More Posts by L-Spatz
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2009, 07:13 PM
Registered User
L-Spatz's Avatar
Redcliff Alberta
Joined Jul 2008
584 Posts
WOO HOO!!!! The TD task's just got a hole bunch easy'er.

I am the happy new owner of a NIB DCH Sailaire kit. I am going to need to beef up the old hi-start next summer.

Ken
SSP #6
L-Spatz is offline Find More Posts by L-Spatz
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2009, 08:24 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
557 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boone View Post
If we go with +1 point a second to task time,-1 point every second over and 100" landing points possible. We can change the task times and/or the number of rounds to change the difficulty. So give me some starting numbers. Task time, rounds, point total. How do you plan on working it if you don't make your point total? Throw out all of the flights and start over?
Don't forget you'll need to specify the measurements for landing points. (How many inches is it per point counting down from 100?)

Tim
2motheus is offline Find More Posts by 2motheus
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2009, 09:11 PM
Registered User
L-Spatz's Avatar
Redcliff Alberta
Joined Jul 2008
584 Posts
I think it was 1 point per inch,hence useing a 100 inch tape. 100 points for dead center with 1 point for the 100 inch mark.

Ken
SSP #6
L-Spatz is offline Find More Posts by L-Spatz
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 06:01 AM
Registered User
elcoba's Avatar
Mapleton, Australia
Joined May 2003
21 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by knormang View Post
You know, I think that leaving slope soaring out of the program leaves a gap that can only be filled by inserting more TD flights...... I feel that leaving slope out as a requirement or an alternative, just because the dedicated slope flyers have not responded as expected, has made things very difficult for Steve.Perhaps we should revisit this aspect." Variety is the spice of life".Ken .
The revisit is already happening. See Steve's thread #521 and other threads leading up to and after it. A slope program to run parallel with the TD program is currently being developed in Queensland, Australia. Steve has agreed to have the proposals looked at and will hopefully include it in the SSP. Please give us a chance to get a proposal in as we only started it this week and we will take a while to get organised. Initially it looks like copper will not change from the current tasks already shown on the website. I have already completed them using a foamie without any problem. Lets say you will see something more by the end of next month. Any ideas you may have would be considered for inclusion
elcoba is offline Find More Posts by elcoba
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 06:03 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,538 Posts
Guys, let's get this nailed down. I want to get Silver Level re-posted. My goal is to have the rest of the program outlined by the first of the year. I'm hoping the slope guys get a program built about the same time or by Feb. at the latest. (the one year mark) They seem to have an idea of what they want so I would hope it can happen. If so we can make the final change and re-do TD Bronze and/or Copper if desired and be done. I want to get this finished, believe it or not there are those who want to see the program as a whole before starting. Not to mention I have more in my life than a constant debate of what to do with the SSP. Constant debate will bring the program to a grinding halt and could be it's doom. If you want to see this style of tasks then let's get it done already. If the contest guys are just stirring the pot and don't plan to actually participate or continue in the program then let's just move on without it.
elcoba: Thanks as long as it's a challenging program and a tough one as well, that can be done around the world. It will be included. I don't mind adding a slope program, I just didn't know what to do to do it. After several people told me it would be next to impossible to keep up the TD or slope format due to the difference between the styles I thought it best to drop it.
Gordon & Tom:You guys still in or are you giving up on the program?
Steve Boone is offline Find More Posts by Steve Boone
Last edited by Steve Boone; Oct 30, 2009 at 06:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 08:55 AM
Making wood fly since 2007
Windependence's Avatar
USA, MN, Rochester
Joined Mar 2008
2,403 Posts
The way I see the contest flight is that it is just another form of timed flight with a precision landing. The only real difference is that the landing has more weight in the final outcome. Might I suggest that instead of having this componant in the silver level we have an inverted flight componant, and let explain my reasoning.

As I stated the contest flight is just another timed flight but the inverted flight would be a new skillset to be learned and mastered. It is also a very usefull skill to have as it is a method of getting out of monster thermals and it would calm those fears when you have lost sight of your plane only to pick it up flying upside down heading to the ground. I have read here on RCGroups that inverting your plane will help you get out of thermals and it is also a way to check the balance on your plane, see Gordy Stahl's plane balancing article.

It can be done with RE only poly ships as well as the full house planes. Possibly something on the lines of a 60 second inverted flight for the RE planes and a 120 second flight for a fulhouse plane.

Just my humble opinion.

Wayne
Windependence is offline Find More Posts by Windependence
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 11:36 AM
Registered User
Okanagan Falls. British columbia. Canada
Joined Nov 2006
366 Posts
I just read again the Vista one type plane contest report. Sounds like they had fun. 27 entries was fantastic. Now there's the way to recruit new 'glider guiders.'I know that some people are not competition minded,but I feel that our model flyers are mostly put off by the travel involved.After all, the SSP itself is a form of solo competition.If we are doomed to be a lone wolf glider enthusiast in the home area, it is the only form of competition we can do.A sticker on the glider denoting the level achieved is the trophy, and it doesn't need polishing.Ken .
knormang is offline Find More Posts by knormang
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old Buzzard's Soaring Video or Book Gvflyer Thermal 20 Mar 04, 2005 03:58 AM
For Sale: Old Buzzard's Soaring Book bobh344 Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 1 Feb 21, 2005 09:09 PM
Old Buzzard's Soaring Book clayjrw Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 31 Dec 20, 2003 08:17 PM
FS: OLD BUZZARD'S SOARING BOOK pic here & on Ebay TTT1111 Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W) 0 Nov 17, 2002 10:54 AM
WTB Dave Thornburg's Old Buzzard's Soaring Book Mauilvr Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 2 Jul 07, 2002 11:29 PM