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Old Apr 04, 2009, 05:33 PM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
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1-26 flyer: your input is greatly apreciated! I've never sloped so I'm at a loss as to what will work there. So keep it coming.
Aerobatics...me likes! I'm a 3D pilot as well as a soaring guy. I was doing two loops to a landing last year for my landing tasks. It made for a fun time.
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 06:17 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,645 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boone
1-26 flyer: your input is greatly apreciated! I've never sloped so I'm at a loss as to what will work there. So keep it coming.
Aerobatics...me likes! I'm a 3D pilot as well as a soaring guy. I was doing two loops to a landing last year for my landing tasks. It made for a fun time.
On the aerobatics, if you want to throw in something wicked perverted for Level VI try the maneuver that Mark Smith did at the end of some of his flights. Touch the ground short of the landing spot at the target time with plenty of momentum pull it up and complete the trip to the spot. Call it the "Full Flying Mark Smith".

Happy Landings,

Don

Just kidding -- at least halfway
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 07:52 PM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,066 Posts
My suggestions (you have heard this before). Take out some of the things like "5 1 hour TD flights" and replace with:

3 minute ladder must be accomplished on the same day to say 30 minutes. This is almost 3 hours of flying and is very difficult.

F3B distance task. This encourages folks to build sighting devices and I think that would be well received by many people active in RC soaring. All it really requires is that the pilot does laps on a 150 meter course. Most flying fields could support this and it is kind of an XC on the field kind of deal. Any plane can do it since it is just total distance that the pilot needs to worry about (no timed element)

+1 for me on DS circuits replacing some of those multiple 3 hour slope flights. If you just require a certian # of DS circuits then people don't feel they need to get radar or super fast planes. Perhaps go with 50 DS circuits in one flight or something.
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 07:56 PM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,066 Posts
Outside the box ideas

These are not neccesarily suggestions, just outside the box ideas to consider:

* Get rid of the levels and change them to be named after soaring icons. Selig, Drela, Smith, Dogeson, etc.

* Instead of having levels change the flow of the program completely to have it grouped by type of task. Perhaps the Selig badge would be all XC tasks. The Drela badge would just be TD long flights. The Smith badge might be all slope stuff. That kind of thing. This way perhaps some folks live in areas that only support sloping so they just go after a completely slope program. If anyone gets all the badges then they are Wurts level or something.

* Add in a task for hand launch flying

* Add in a task that somehow supports building. Perhaps a scale thermal or slope duration requirement

* Reward # of posts on rcgroups


Ryan


-- That last one was a joke
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 09:00 PM
Glider guider
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United States, FL, Sun City Center
Joined Oct 2005
359 Posts
This is really gonna be fun! Options are a good thing.

How about a Thornberg level?
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 09:35 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,645 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwoebke
My suggestions (you have heard this before). Take out some of the things like "5 1 hour TD flights" and replace with:

3 minute ladder must be accomplished on the same day to say 30 minutes. This is almost 3 hours of flying and is very difficult.

F3B distance task. This encourages folks to build sighting devices and I think that would be well received by many people active in RC soaring. All it really requires is that the pilot does laps on a 150 meter course. Most flying fields could support this and it is kind of an XC on the field kind of deal. Any plane can do it since it is just total distance that the pilot needs to worry about (no timed element)

+1 for me on DS circuits replacing some of those multiple 3 hour slope flights. If you just require a certian # of DS circuits then people don't feel they need to get radar or super fast planes. Perhaps go with 50 DS circuits in one flight or something.
No problem with either eliminating tasks or simply adding tasks. There is no implicit reason for limiting the number of tasks, after all the intent is to keep it relatively difficult and to offer interested participants a broad menu of things to do besides breaking winch lines and burning circles in the sky -- for a long time.

F3B type tasks are a good idea as offered as an option on a menu of possible tasks. Joe Cumulus in the middle of Idaho is not likely to ever assemble enough people to man an F3B course even once, let alone the number of times it would take to practice and learn the task well enough to meet a task performance requirement.

Again, DS tasks as a part of a smorgasbord of options are great.

Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 10:15 PM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,066 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban
Joe Cumulus in the middle of Idaho is not likely to ever assemble enough people to man an F3B course even once, let alone the number of times it would take to practice and learn the task well enough to meet a task performance requirement.
Actually, all it takes is 2 people + the pilot. One witness stitting up winch line 150 meters and one witness sitting with the pilot. This is no more than you really need to do XC. To do XC you pretty much need a driver and a helper in the back of the truck. You might be able to get by with a driver and just the pilot if you use a convertable. But really most often you have a driver and a helper. So it is no more workers required than doing XC.
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 10:46 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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Old Apr 05, 2009, 06:12 AM
Torn 'twixt buildin' and flyin
TheNightowl's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2007
7,189 Posts
Ryan! Shame on you! Where's your sense of .. History! How could you leave Zaic off that list!?!
Nightowl
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Old Apr 05, 2009, 07:43 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
Thank you for letting me know. I was told I goofed, sorry. Yesterday when I added the combined landing and flight tasks together I forgot to lower the landing only total. I corrected that this morning. I would like to ask if everyone is happy with the task set for level 1 at this point. I really would like to "carve it in stone" for the trial so people can get started on it and not have to wonder if it will change before they get too far.
************************************************** *******
I went back and edited my posts with the forms on them. From now on to make it easier to find and follow, all forms will be posted in the opening post of this thread. As soon as we all agree on a levels task set I will create a form for it and post it. It saves time and makes it easier to see where things stand without searching through all of the posts to find the current version.
************************************************** *******
I really am happy with the suggestions that have been coming from everyone. I do admit the use of the term "level" has me stumped as to why everyone thinks it's so important to use a different term. It's been suggested we use gems like the SSA uses. Wouldn't that just have them saying the same thing about using their term? Names I have to say I'm against. First we would have to contact everyone to get permition, then we run the risk of offending others for not choosing them. Personally, I think the "level" is the easiest to understand. Precious metals would be fine. Do we change the order as the market value changes though? Just joking, I needed a bit of humor this morning as the weather sucks and another day without flying is in store for me. I'm still open to suggestions though. If it's truely that important to make others feel that we're not stepping on their toes, I vote for metals. Now can someone tell me what is worth more? Seriously. Copper for aspirants? It's malleable, so fitting of newbie status. Aluminum for L 1, because it's light weight?
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Old Apr 05, 2009, 10:18 AM
Registered User
ecormier's Avatar
Moncton, NB
Joined Aug 2005
155 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo125
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a precision flight with spot landing? I suspect it has to do with time, right?

Thom
The way I understand it, is that you have to land within +/- x feet of a marker and within +/- y seconds of a predetermined timed. The fixed time seems like a good challenge in energy management. To make it really challenging, make the time long enough that you need to hook a couple of thermals, and not just float down gently from a zoom launch. Now add aerobatics to that and you really got a challenge.

These precision flights would more closely mimic contest requirements from the other nameless program and are more purely a test of skill rather than human endurance. IMHO.
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Old Apr 05, 2009, 10:38 AM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,066 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNightowl
Ryan! Shame on you!
I have said repeatedly on this interweb that I am in fact an idiot...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boone
I do admit the use of the term "level" has me stumped as to why everyone thinks it's so important to use a different term. It's been suggested we use gems like the SSA uses. Wouldn't that just have them saying the same thing about using their term?
I think it would reduce confusion. It is common for folks to say "I'm working on Level Three". Or say stuff like "Wow, this is a heavy contest, there are eight Level 5s at this thing!" There of course can be other programs for other stuff out there in this great big world of ours but there are 2 RC glider programs I'm aware of and it would be fandiddlytastic if we could avoid using their terminology. Probably it does not matter if we overlap with a program for full scale or for knitting or for tiddlywinks or whatever.



Ryan
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Old Apr 05, 2009, 10:39 AM
Registered User
ecormier's Avatar
Moncton, NB
Joined Aug 2005
155 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban
It could certainly vary from level to level, but might require something like a pattern that starts with 3 consecutive loops followed by 30 seconds of inverted flight followed by a full roll and ending with a precision landing.

Don
Is it possible to do a roll in an RES ship?
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Old Apr 05, 2009, 11:04 AM
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ecormier's Avatar
Moncton, NB
Joined Aug 2005
155 Posts
Here's some more nitpicking... I don't like having the smorgasboard of duration times within the same level. Keep it simple. For example, in your level two, why not just have 3 x 1 hour flights.

Also, level 2 seems pretty hard compared to LSF. 1 hour TD flights only appear at level IV. I know that you want it more difficult because there are no competition tasks, but don't you think it's overkill? I know you said to not mention the LSF, but I think it's unwise to ignore a battle-tested program that can give you an idea of how really difficult these tasks are.

Sorry about the criticism. I hope you don't take it to heart.

Anyways, I've spent way too much time on the internet and need to finish this damn BD before the fields dry out. (I think there should be badge just for scratch-building a BD. )
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Old Apr 05, 2009, 12:06 PM
Modelrater Deluxe
1-26 Flyer's Avatar
Western Colorado
Joined Dec 2004
1,048 Posts
how about on level one for the slope part instead of the all the 15 min flights change a couple to 30 min.
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