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Old Jul 09, 2009, 07:09 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
Tim: Welcome to the SSP. It's nice to see some more new members. Be sure to pop in and keep us updated or just BS. We like to hear from fellow members. It may be time to plan a winter build project to install spoilers or build a new ship with spoilers for him. Aaah, father and son time in the shop. Priceless!
I think the addition of logging devices really helps. Don't forget to date the sheets and mark them so I know which task they go with. Then include them with your forms so you get credit.
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Wayne: Any progress with your new group of soaring guys?
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If you haven't done so already. Please take the time to rate this thread. I'm still hoping to get it stickied to make it easier to find and to help it be seen to grow our membership. I'm not sure if there are certain criteria we need to get that to happen but the more hits and better the rating I'm sure can't hurt.
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Old Jul 11, 2009, 11:43 PM
Registered User
shoe's Avatar
USA, AZ, Tucson
Joined Apr 2002
561 Posts
Started the SSP today at our club contest.
Got 3, 5 min flights and 4 landings out of the way.
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Old Jul 12, 2009, 12:26 AM
Making wood fly since 2007
Windependence's Avatar
USA, MN, Rochester
Joined Mar 2008
2,542 Posts
Hi Steve, man things have been nuts around here but I am proud to say that the first fun fly event has been scheduled for July 25th. As of now I have roughly 15 people that have expressed interest in soaring. I am going to make copies of the SSP copper form and encourage people to participate. I am also going to encourage participation in the monthly X5J contests in the electric sailplane forum for the e-powered guys. Well over half of the people who have expressed interest are flying e-powered gliders so I really need to figure out a way to have a contest including both e-powered and traditional planes.

I have flown at the new field a few times and I believe it will work beautifully. The grass is not short like a lawn but longer like field grass, maybe 18 - 24 inches tall. For now this is a good thing because most of the people attending this first event will be beginners and the slightly longer grass will make landings more forgiving.

I am very excited about this and I will keep you posted. I will get some more landing checked off at this event and hopefully some of the flights. I am going to plan regular events so hopefully I will be able to knock off some more of those requirements in the near future.

Wayne
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Old Jul 12, 2009, 12:48 AM
Foamy Season is here! MX2#1
pitviper51's Avatar
Elizabethtown, Kentucky
Joined Nov 2005
3,406 Posts
neat stuff, The only issue i have with this kind of thing is that all duration flights are timed down and your suppose to land on the time.. When i set time goals i try to fly as long as possible everytime, a simple log sheet with differnt time goals would appeal to those not flying the competitive style TD. You can set out to fly a 5 min goal and if you end up flying longer set new goal 10min and so on..Also something should be added to work for scale aerotowed sailplanes. maybe a timed tow or limit 3 180 degree turns then start time on release. I guess my biggest thing that keeps me out of task flying in the stadard form is the point landing.. it buggs me seeing folks nose dive like a lawn dart with a expensive glider just to hit the mark, if your really precise it should stop as smooth as it can on the point. i guess i hand catch to much is that precise enough there is nothing like flying it right to yourself and the glider just stops and falls in your hand... sorry to be the voice of rebellion, but opinions are what make programs like this better suited for anyone.
mike
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Old Jul 12, 2009, 06:34 AM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
2,224 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitviper51
neat stuff, The only issue i have with this kind of thing is that all duration flights are timed down and your suppose to land on the time.. When i set time goals i try to fly as long as possible everytime, a simple log sheet with differnt time goals would appeal to those not flying the competitive style TD. You can set out to fly a 5 min goal and if you end up flying longer set new goal 10min and so on..Also something should be added to work for scale aerotowed sailplanes. maybe a timed tow or limit 3 180 degree turns then start time on release. I guess my biggest thing that keeps me out of task flying in the stadard form is the point landing.. it buggs me seeing folks nose dive like a lawn dart with a expensive glider just to hit the mark, if your really precise it should stop as smooth as it can on the point. i guess i hand catch to much is that precise enough there is nothing like flying it right to yourself and the glider just stops and falls in your hand... sorry to be the voice of rebellion, but opinions are what make programs like this better suited for anyone.
mike
The SSP and the LSF will both accept a longer flight than needed for time task. Last weekend Steve signed my 5 minute with landing, it was a 40 minute flight. My LSF Level I 5 minute flights were 15 and 27, Level II 15 minute flights are 16 and 37 on the second form. I had 40 and 1 hour 20 minutes on my first Level II form which was lost.
I do agree about the lawn dart landings. If you can catch it you should have no trouble making it fall on the spot

Joe
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Old Jul 12, 2009, 04:08 PM
who has rabbit ears down
Captain Canardly's Avatar
United States, MN, Buffalo
Joined Jan 2007
3,682 Posts
Windy!
I do believe I will need a map! I have gone from a 60 hr to 20 hour work week, so my birds are getting up to only one year late!
Johnny
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Old Jul 12, 2009, 10:31 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
567 Posts
Flight report and a task question

I flew for about an hour today. My weapon is a stretched Sagitta 900 that needs a bigger rudder.

It was windy today in SW Michigan - 12 mph gusting to 20. I did manage three landings, and "long" flights of 6:40 and 9:30. I don't have an adult witness for timing, so I'm relying on my Zlog. Of course, the memory filled up just before the 9:30 flight.

I have one question about the tasks within a level. Is it safe to assume I can do the tasks for a level in any order. For example, I got a landing on my 6:40 flight, so may I count that for my "5-min with landing" even though I haven't done any other 5-min flights? I didn't see in the instructions an explanation of task sequences within a level.

Thank you,

Tim
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Old Jul 13, 2009, 12:53 AM
Foamy Season is here! MX2#1
pitviper51's Avatar
Elizabethtown, Kentucky
Joined Nov 2005
3,406 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermaler
The SSP and the LSF will both accept a longer flight than needed for time task. Last weekend Steve signed my 5 minute with landing, it was a 40 minute flight. My LSF Level I 5 minute flights were 15 and 27, Level II 15 minute flights are 16 and 37 on the second form. I had 40 and 1 hour 20 minutes on my first Level II form which was lost.
I do agree about the lawn dart landings. If you can catch it you should have no trouble making it fall on the spot

Joe
the trouble with falling on the spot on the ground is there is no space belwo the ground to loose the energy, like when hand catchin you aprouch at normal speed then hug the grass as it gets close you pull up to hand level and just as it stalls should be in your hand.. tho some will be darted into your hand haha oh well.. maybe i just need to make my own log sheet with goals.
mike
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Old Jul 13, 2009, 08:31 AM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
Shoe: WAY TO GO! Welcome to the machine. It's nice to see new faces so to speak.
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Tim: You can do the tasks in any order. The times for TD flight are minimum times. So a 5 minute flight can be as long as you wish to make it, as long as it's at least 5 minutes. This also allows you to try for your longest needed time and if you don't make it you can use it for a shorter timed task. Using the z-log to time your flights works for the time part of the flight. However, it would still require a witness to be present BEFORE you land to vouch for the landing part. So if you're flying say for an hour flight and someone happens by that qualifies as a witness and they see you in the air and witness your landing. Then you could use their signature for the landing portion and include a copy of your z-log for the time portion and thus complete a flight with landing task.
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Mike: TD FLIGHT times are MINIMIM TIMES. If you want to fly for an hour and use it for a 5 minute task that's fine. The TIMED FLIGHTS starting in Bronze level have to be completed within a specific time. As do the LADDER FLIGHT times. This was done to add to the diversity of the program. It also teaches other skills like energy retention and landing skills. As far as "dart" style landing go. I don't do them (well intentionally at least). I prefer a smooth landing that is more scale like. Although I've tried the "dart" style a few times it just doesn't seem right to me. It's your choice. I flew a S. Lady last year. A rudder elevator ship. I could land it quite well to a short target length. It's simply a matter of lots of flight time and knowing your ship. That being said, I like having a flapped ship this year. I do miss my S.Lady though. RIP
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Joe: You need to get a hold of me so I can give you $$$ before the NATS. Come on down if you want and see the shop and new plane. Give me directions so I can get lost and wander aimlessly around Michigan. (you never know, I may get lucky and find you by accident) Send me you address and I'll priority mail a MO to you.
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Old Jul 14, 2009, 02:28 PM
Registered User
maguro's Avatar
United States, DE, Bear
Joined Apr 2007
2,174 Posts
Steve,

I just found this thread. What a great idea!

I made it to LSF level II about 30 years ago, and then stopped flying RC till last year. I fly at local park with my wife and adult son. I'm not into competition any more except with myself. The Sportsman Soaring Program is just what I need. As soon as I get some decent soaring weather, I'm starting on copper.

Thanks for starting this.

Roger
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Old Jul 14, 2009, 03:47 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
567 Posts
Dlg?

Steve,

Any more thoughts on how to include DLG? A minimum flight time could be required to count toward a landing. This would prevent someone from making light tosses into the circle, similar to the requirement to have a towline of a minimum length. All other timed flights would follow the same rules as other planes.

Tim
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Old Jul 14, 2009, 04:18 PM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
Roger: Welcome to the thread and to the SSP. Hope you enjoy the program.
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Tim: To be honest, with flying season here and some things going on in my personal life I haven't given it much thought lately. I had been tossing some ideas around in the back of my head but they kept getting pushed aside. Now that everything is starting to calm down a bit I plan to get back on track though.
I had been thinking about a 3 minute flight time before you land to use as a way to allow for DLG's to be used. It has just never made it to open forum yet to get opinions. So I guess now is as good a time as any. What does everyone have to say? I guess why we're at it I should ask; if I set a time limit for DLG's to be used, should I wait to implement it or allow it in right away? Personally, I say right away since not so many people have made enough progress as to call it unfair. Which is also why the time would have to be substantial enough to not be able to simply toss, circle and land. I always mini-high started my DLG's and HLG's to legal height for the LSF. I see the virtue of just tossing them due to having enough room to set up the high start. I've also winched my HLG on a mini and full size winch. TAP, TAP, TAP. So it can be done that way as well. The other option would be to go back to the logging devices and set a minimum height to achieve before allowing the landing to count. That would make it harder for DLG's to do the landing task and so I don't think near as fair as a flight time before landing. Opinions everyone?
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Old Jul 14, 2009, 06:28 PM
Registered User
maguro's Avatar
United States, DE, Bear
Joined Apr 2007
2,174 Posts
Steve,

I have a Fling DLG ( I know a Fling is more of a Discus Launched Brick), and will have a hard time making 3 minutes. Heck, 2 minutes is a challenge with a Fling. Why not just require a minumum of 2 minute flight for any landing to count. 3 minute TD and 5 minute TD with and without spot landings. I know that I would be busy for a long time trying to get one 5 minute TD.

Roger
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Old Jul 14, 2009, 07:54 PM
founder of the SSP
Steve Boone's Avatar
Walkerton, Indiana
Joined Jul 2004
1,554 Posts
Roger: That would require a whole new set of rules just for DLG's. That wouldn't be fair for the rest. Besides, I've had several DLG's (not top of the line) that I could launch and just float around a big easy circle for 2 minutes. Personally, I think that a mini-high start (only $12) and the current rules are good enough. Since I'm trying to involve so many aspects of soaring, I thought it would be nice to find a way for the purist DLG guys to join in. I'm also trying to do the same with the electric guys as well. However, if you set different standards for every type of plane it would be a disaster. Then people would say, " A Pike Perfect and a TH Vista aren't the same so they need different times as well".
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Old Jul 14, 2009, 08:00 PM
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United States, DE, Bear
Joined Apr 2007
2,174 Posts
That sounds reasonable to me.

Roger
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