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Old Apr 16, 2009, 09:30 PM
Excellence is Expected
MakMov's Avatar
Aurora, Colorado
Joined Nov 2005
3,736 Posts
Disscussed many years ago, without much real interest from GWS.
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Old Apr 16, 2009, 09:44 PM
Team30 Micro EDF
NitroCharged's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2004
11,254 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWS CHEN
Hi NitroCharged & Thrashmaster71,

Thank you very much for your reminder, I'll ask my colleague to update the GWS news on the web site as soon as possible.

Chen
Your colleague needs to respond faster, or have you still to contact him?
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Old Apr 16, 2009, 10:05 PM
Registered User
Taipei, Taiwan
Joined Oct 2005
4,703 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroCharged
Your colleague needs to respond faster, or have you still to contact him?
My colleagues have updated this link, http://www.gwsus.com/english/news/news2008.htm but they still have to work for the 2009 one, and I'll ask them to post more about the brushless EDF50.

Chen
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Old Apr 16, 2009, 10:48 PM
WiggleWiggleWiggle
ozzi supercub's Avatar
South Australia
Joined Jan 2008
6,073 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakMov
Disscussed many years ago, without much real interest from GWS.
I'm guessing that many years ago they had no need for such a system because GWS was booming, dealers all around the world were stocking their stuff and you could just about walk into any hobby shop and buy GWS. Times have changed and I think it would be the most cost effective way to get their stock moving with very little investment by GWS.
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Old Apr 16, 2009, 11:26 PM
Excellence is Expected
MakMov's Avatar
Aurora, Colorado
Joined Nov 2005
3,736 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzi supercub
I'm guessing that many years ago they had no need for such a system because GWS was booming, dealers all around the world were stocking their stuff and you could just about walk into any hobby shop and buy GWS. Times have changed and I think it would be the most cost effective way to get their stock moving with very little investment by GWS.

Actually they were pulling back US distribution along with some other issues making it increasingly difficult to stock and sell their product in LHS. Many gave up because it didnít make sense anymore. Nevertheless, GWS had plenty of opportunity to get ahead of the curve but consciously choose not to, only Chen knows somewhere in his head, why?

In 2004 when I was active on these boards, building and flying GWS the boys over in Asia were given lots of help, aid, and suggestions only, well there is no other way of putting it, but they (the people offering assistance) more or less got snubbed.

GWS became a real clique product. I.E. You either loved them at all costs or you moved on. I think most moved. At one time the LHS was very actively using GWS for combat flying and had regular meets. Now youíd be hard pressed to find a GWS airplane in the store. FWIW, they still actively fly combat but are by and large using a different product.

Me personally I kind of got a sour taste in my mouth from the whole experience and also moved on to helis... That and my cat ate a large portion of my Beaver - that came out wrong didn't it? I still have four or five of their planes hanging around.

Look I have twelve + years of Hobby shop/ Wholesale experience and know what works and what does not. I have offered plenty of suggestions and my experience and basically got slapped in the face. I spent a good amount of time editing their manuals without so much as a thank you. It was more like ďwe donít need your help,Ē but almost word for word my work repeatedly showed up in their manuals.

In the end, they have no one to blame for the position but themselves, and I seriously doubt they have turned any new leafs. Hey, I, and donít get me wrong, I am not bitter about it in the least (I got over it - but was kind of POed for while), but I do find it amusing GWS keeps covering the same old ground. Just the patch they are covering gets smaller and smaller.

I do agree with you on an Ebay store would be a good supplement, but as competitive Ebay is, it in itself isnít enough to sustain GWS on its own.

Lastly, from the emails I still have from GWS they still owe me a kit. I wasn't holding my breath that they would actually come through on it... but hey since we're being honest and all... a Zebra doesn't change its stripes.
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 12:37 AM
WiggleWiggleWiggle
ozzi supercub's Avatar
South Australia
Joined Jan 2008
6,073 Posts
I tend to agree with something you touched on. I've only been active on these threads for just over a year. What I've noticed is that none of the advice given seems to be taken on board. The message I get is "tell your hobby shops you want GWS" but ask any smaller hobby retailer and they dont want to deal with GWS because its too hard. Thats why I suggested EBAY because it puts the ball firmly in their court. Easy to do and it will get them some results almost instantly.
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 04:27 AM
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Pakistan, Punjab, Lahore
Joined Feb 2007
301 Posts
A very long time ago a Rolls Royce owner called RR service and told them his Rolls had broken down. He was curtly told "Sir our cars do not 'break down'. They 'fail to proceed'.

Look what happened to RR. They're owned by BMW now.
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 04:35 AM
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saigol7's Avatar
Pakistan, Punjab, Lahore
Joined Feb 2007
301 Posts
Mr. Chen

Please tak a look at this: http://www.bananahobby.com/1783.html

Its a cheap copy of your Estarter and its an RTF for under $90.
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 04:48 AM
WiggleWiggleWiggle
ozzi supercub's Avatar
South Australia
Joined Jan 2008
6,073 Posts
I believe the problem for GWS is not whether they can offer their kits at reasonable prices but the ridiculous increase in shipping costs they have had to endure out of Taiwan recently.
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 04:48 AM
Registered User
Bedlington, United Kingdom
Joined Apr 2007
73 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzi supercub
I tend to agree with something you touched on. I've only been active on these threads for just over a year. What I've noticed is that none of the advice given seems to be taken on board. The message I get is "tell your hobby shops you want GWS" but ask any smaller hobby retailer and they dont want to deal with GWS because its too hard. Thats why I suggested EBAY because it puts the ball firmly in their court. Easy to do and it will get them some results almost instantly.

That is very true. Yes, we do offer our advice and yes it goes ignored but now GWS seems to be in a " do or die " situation. They can either listen to us and claw back their customers or they can lose the rest of their customers to other companys.

Lets face facts,small hobby shops are refusing to deal with GWS because it is too expensive. Another way has to be found to get the products they make to the people who buy them. I am a big fan of Dave Powers from RCPowers.com because of the way he does business (that and the edfs he reviews on the site from another company look like they fly perfectly "straight from the box" ), GWS is a much larger company so why all these difficulties with edfs?

Unlike many people here who have had many kits from GWS and have many many hours flying them, I don't.

I have an e- starter and have literally just started RC flight. I first came across GWS by a full page advert in a magazine a few years ago, the planes were affordable and looked great but due to various reasons was unable to get into flying. Now I can and I want GWS to make lots of money so they can release lots of planes and make everybody happy. I want to give Mr Lin my money but if GWS goes under then I have found another company just up the road from GWS with large EDF planes ( 1m+ wingspan ) that I can aspire to fly, sorry Mr Lin


Michael
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 08:44 AM
Confused? Who, me?
Roger Lombard's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, North York
Joined Jan 2005
4,790 Posts
I'm starting to regret closing my thread on this topic because this thread is losing the plot.
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 08:53 AM
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Bedlington, United Kingdom
Joined Apr 2007
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How so Roger?
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 11:29 AM
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WTFLYR's Avatar
West Central PA
Joined Dec 2008
2,140 Posts
You may be putting Roger on the spot by asking the question, as I don't believe he intends an answer to be interpreted as a rant, but may fear others will. They often do. I don't think GWS (or many other companies for that matter) really listens to their customers at all. Not trying to insult here, just taking the realist's stand. With that in mind, it could seem to folks that this thread is here, just for the purpose of making people feel important, keeping their interest in GWS, and simply posting on the forum, if nothing else.

I wouldn't blame Roger for closing his thread, as he let it go to reasonable length. I do get irked, however, when folks open a discussion topic and then close it after 1 page, when they have finished stating their 2 cents worth. Still, I'd open it up again, since the topic of this thread is narrowed in a specific direction.

Realistically, we are all (%99) interested in new planes. Whether that happens or not, you don't solve a problem without looking at the cause. While they're are many causes, I believe that mistakes in models released is one that could have been clearly avoided. While we do not see actual sales figures, we can make a good guess, based on interest/posting levles in the forums. This is one topic I can't get off my mind, since it would seem to have been so easily avoidable. Sales are cash flow, and better sales would have helped GWS create new releases.

The recent flock of releases to not appear to have been made with the best of judgement. Again, not a bash, but an analysis.
J10: Released at basically the same time by other manufacturer
F15: Released at basically same time by other manufacturers (more than one, in this case). Also important is the scale inaccuracy. While some mods are important to produce a good flying airplane, incorrectly modeling the bulges on the front intake sides is not acceptable. It gives the competition yet one more reason to take your sales. These are small details, but with large implications. Folks often buy what looks best.
FW190: Good size and good flyer, with better price than alternatives. Complete miss on scale factor. Again, this in unacceptable and completely unnecessary. If this plane's fuse simply looked as scale as the PKZ (hopefully much better) then I could see it being an incredibly big hit. I have one converted into an EDF FW190TL. I love the plane and would buy another for detailing as a prop version, but I have no interest due to the off-scale factor.
AT6: I just think there are so many planes that would have been more interesting than this. It is basically a warbird trainer, therefore it will never have the same interest level as a warbird. Since it looks like a warbird in general proportions, it is yet another of the many warbirds on the market. I would have looked to make something unique in this case, maybe even a seaplane as Led Kitty suggested. There is basically no competition in that arena.

Now nearly all this time, a decent Mig15 or Sabre could have had exclusivity. The Mig17 was an even better idea, in that sense. Now, we are seeing some other names coming out with new releases of these types, but GWS could have had a few good years with their version, and hopefully more, if it was a better value than the competion.

My conclusion is that in selecting subjects, there is a fine line between high sales and exclusivity. The GWS262 was an excellent choice, as it seems to have a good steady market, but there is not enough of a market to tempt competition to make one. It was also well modeled in scale, with deviations being acceptable for flying qualities. The GWS15 is entirely the opposite of this. Large sales due to being a highly popular modern jet, but risks losing nearly all sales to the large number of competitors, also making a better scale rendition. I selected these 2 as examples at the opposite ends of the fence. Future model choices need to be made using sound discretion.
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 12:31 PM
nsg
Registered User
Yardley, PA
Joined Sep 2006
4,169 Posts
I don't think a can of assorted nuts that we are (in case you feel like disputing that characterization, explain how a sane person can pay $50 for a pile of styrofoam) should be expected to stay completely on-topic.

That said, a separate thread that gives us a place to ask for unrealistic stuff - I, for one, would like a true to scale Polikarpov I-16 in 42" WS (edit: make it 65" WS) by Christmas - may be a good idea - realistic stuff here, dreams there.

Incidentally, I now see the point Roger made a year ago about absence of any visible marketing - when hobby shops stop ordering Formosa II, something is very wrong with GWS marketing.
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 12:36 PM
Confused? Who, me?
Roger Lombard's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, North York
Joined Jan 2005
4,790 Posts
Thank you for your constructive response WTFLYR.

I think its lost the plot because it started out as a forum of ideas as to how to revitalise market presence at minimum cost. I thought this could be done by upgrading some existing models with minimal to zero investment in tooling.

It's become, to some extent, a critique of GWS distribution. We already know this has gone seriously wrong and pages have been written on the topic without any apparent constructive reaction from GWS.

There's also been time for GWS to react but the only response we're getting is from the ever faithful Chen.

I closed my thread because once Chen had picked up nsg's suggestion to run a thread on the same theme, as a sticky, which I was all in favour of, my original became redundant and diluted focus.

I, and maybe GWS, was hoping people would make suggestions on how existing models could be improved at low cost to re-excite dealers and attract new publicity.

Chatter about where GWS has gone wrong isn't really going to turn up much that hasn't been covered before, although I'll willingly allow that a company with global ambitions that hasn't bothered to keep its web site bang up to date doesn't give the impression that it has any sort of grip on today's commercial reality.

I've unlocked my thread but I have rapidly diminishing expectations that it will do anything to help GWS. Something about how you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

The fact that a thread I locked 12 days ago is still on the "front page" of this forum says everything doesn't it? Three years ago it would have been about three pages back by now
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