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Old May 19, 2009, 03:10 AM
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haiduk's Avatar
Marysville, WA
Joined Oct 2008
1,360 Posts
Mr Chen,

I understand the cost of tooling new molds for injection molding might be cost prohibitive at this time. Now how about more simple die cut tools to cut flat sheet foam? Much less expensive.

As an idea, flat foam sheets could be cut into kits for built up planes. Pre-cut foam that folds around formers and ribs. One of my favorite building materials is known as "Dollar Tree Foam Board." Basically it's Depron with paper glued on both surfaces. EPP sheets would more durable and be lighter. It shouldn't take too much funding create die cut tools to cut sheets of foam into kits. Much less expensive than tooling new injection molds. Shipping would also be much less expensive due to smaller packaging of flat foam parts.

Planes built up from foam sheets rather than injection molded kits. The skins could even be pre-creased and have panel lines and details pressed or melted into the outside skins. Perhaps heat pressed molded sheets rather than injection molded foam. Built up from flat foam parts to a fun scale, not profile foam planes. Formed foam skins that glue around foam formers and ribs.

These planes built up from foam sheets prove to be extremely durable.

Here's a video of an Aeronca L3 that I designed and built up from Dollar Tree Foam. Total cost of building materials, servos, landing gear wires, wheels, and all other hardware minus the motor, battery, ESC and radio gear was less than $10 USD:
Dollar Tree Foam Aeronca L3 Maiden Flight (5 min 49 sec)


For example, here are some photo's of Dollar Tree foam aircraft that I'm designing, building and flying:
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Last edited by haiduk; May 19, 2009 at 05:34 AM. Reason: added pics
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Old May 19, 2009, 10:35 AM
nsg
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Yardley, PA
Joined Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWS CHEN
Hi Larry,

I agree with your words. It seems that many younger pilots could not build their own airplanes well from a kit, not even from an ARF kit. However, most of friends on RCG here have been well experienced and with good skills. They'd like to buy NPS white kits mostly, while we normally suggest most beginners building/flying Slow Stick, Beaver or E-Starter, that's why we tried to work more on releasing RTF Estarter or RTF Pico Stick first. These RTF ones can be more friendly with most younger beginners. Hopefully the elderly beginners will like RTF kits, too.

Chen
Chen - the problem is, a young kid isn't going to buy a SlowStick. Beaver, maybe (or maybe not); a warbird, almost certainly. Look at ParkZone offerings. They are increasingly popular.
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Old May 19, 2009, 02:00 PM
Der Flieger kommt schnell
WWIFlyin'Ace's Avatar
Staten Island
Joined Jun 2005
383 Posts
Chen,
I think that your SPEEDY WING EPO would be a nice plane to have a RTF with radio etc.
It would compete against the Stryker.

Unfortunately, under GWS difficulties, there won't be any new productions.
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Old May 19, 2009, 08:41 PM
road wart
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United States, CT, Stonington
Joined Aug 2003
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I think they should sell empty boxes with the pictures of all kinds of planes people want printing on them..........all the suggestions etc........they would be alot further along then they have been for a few years
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Old May 21, 2009, 02:06 AM
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Taipei, Taiwan
Joined Oct 2005
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Hi Haiduk & WWIFlyin'Ace,

Thank you for your ideas, yes, the flat ones might be with less mouldings, and lower investments, too. The flat Me-163 as what I posted was a totally flat one, while the Speedy or Flying Wing was way thicker than flat one, but still in the same "flat" category. Yes, the RTF kits of these two birds will be another good choices for users who are budget minded.

We'll discuss these with Boss to see if he could make up his mind earlier.

Chen
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Old May 21, 2009, 02:23 AM
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Marysville, WA
Joined Oct 2008
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Chen, not flat, but built up from pre-cut flat materials with outer skins heat press molded to shape.
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Old May 21, 2009, 02:34 AM
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Joined Oct 2005
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Hi Nsg,

Yes, lots of young beginners would like to fly warbirds as their trainers instead. But it's quite hard to do so even with a buddy system. Probably we have to give RTF GWS-190 or Corsair a try,.. but the kit box size is still a problem.

Chen
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Old May 21, 2009, 02:48 AM
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Taipei, Taiwan
Joined Oct 2005
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Haiduk,

Thanks, I noticed the one from the pictures you posted was the heat press moulded. Roger Su, Boss's classmate, the designer of GWS Fokker DVII (almost the same as Sig one) even said that he could glue these flat pieces together for the fuselage and wing. He said "Gluing is cheaper than moulding". However, Boss insisted "moulding like what we did on most GWS birds is much better". These were a part of meeting records internally a few months ago in GWS HQ.

Chen
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Old May 21, 2009, 05:20 AM
Pronounced "High Duck"
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Marysville, WA
Joined Oct 2008
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Yes, people have been doing some truly amazing things with flat foam. Can easily fold or roll foam to make outside skins without the need for molding. I would really like to see what the designers at GWS can come up with. I've got a few designs I wouldn't mind sharing with you if it helps.
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Old May 21, 2009, 10:32 AM
Warbird E-Pilot / Hack Builder
Peoria, Arizona
Joined Feb 2009
366 Posts
I prefer the molded foam and don't want any flat foam profile type planes. My PZ Spitfire fuselage is 2 pieces of thin flat foam molded to shape and glued down the middle. The thing is fragile and has many cracks I've had to glue. I like the newer PZ stuff like the Trojan and Corsair which is solid foam.

The GWS-190 and GWS-40 are great, I hope GWS can continue to make new kits in this range. I would love to see a big Mustang, A Zero, Raiden, or Ki-43.
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Old May 22, 2009, 12:44 PM
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Joined Dec 2003
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One of the hobby shops I visit regularly has almost stopped carrying GWS kits because their customers are asking for more durable foam airplanes. It shouldn't be too hard to switch most molded planes to EPO instead of EPS.

Keep making the Slow Stick. Almost everyone I fly with has one or two of them. We have Slow Stick Combat every Friday. The NPS is the most popular version. The Instructions are almost incomprehensible. I have written a partial manual for our club members.

Resume making the Flying Pizza. It is one of the best aerobatic/3D trainers ever made, if the rudder is used. A local hobby shop used to sponsor Pizza Parties. Judged aerobatics, Slow Race, Pylon Race, Full Contact Combat. It was a fabulous event with 20+ Pizzas in the air at one time. The Pizza also flies great with the stock brushed motor.

Please update the Grand Wing website it is way out of date.

................Moose......................
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Old May 22, 2009, 08:44 PM
ODB VI September 2014
1987tc's Avatar
United States, OK, Weleetka
Joined Dec 2000
8,542 Posts
Here is a new idea....

How about making what you already produce available? I have not seen a GWS plane in any hobby shop in ages. Sure you can order some here and there.

But the best planes in the world are worthless if you cannot BUY THEM!
Been a GWS fan since 2000. Had tons of your planes and products. BUT now I find I rarely even consider them anymore. Why? Because they are not easy to come by.
Most shops will carry one or two at most. Maybe a few servos. That is it.
Places like hobbyking sell servos for a fraction of what you do. Are they as good? Probably not. But at $5 for a servo that I can get that works does it have to be?
The best way to improve market presence is to have your product reach the market it is aimed for!
Wes
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Old May 23, 2009, 04:19 AM
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Taipei, Taiwan
Joined Oct 2005
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Hi Moose,

Thank you for your comments and ideas. My Boss has decided to produce EPO Estarter, and there have been another EPO birds, GWS-190, AT-6, P-40 and GWS-15. Yes, we have to update our website. Thanks.

Hi Wes,

Thank you for these ideas. I'll discuss your words with Boss and my colleagues.

Chen
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Old May 23, 2009, 02:08 PM
road wart
racie34's Avatar
United States, CT, Stonington
Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWS CHEN
Hi Moose,

Thank you for your comments and ideas. My Boss has decided to produce EPO Estarter, and there have been another EPO birds, GWS-190, AT-6, P-40 and GWS-15. Yes, we have to update our website. Thanks.

Hi Wes,

Thank you for these ideas. I'll discuss your words with Boss and my colleagues.

Chen
why dont you produce something people want?....I doubt that things coming anyhow....far as I know GWS is all done for awhile.....thats the word anyway
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Old May 24, 2009, 03:07 AM
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Joined Sep 2006
255 Posts
Hello,

In my country, GWS products have taught most of us to fly in a very economical and practical way, me included.

Gws has also proven to the world electric rc is real and just as fun if not more than glow engine.

However GWS seem to have lost focus over past 3 years when only good EDF planes were produce and WW2 planes seems to have taken a back burner position.

I am intermediate to advance electric rc enthusiast, I have realised eventhough edf is very attractive and seem like the next natural stage of progress, WW2 planes and beginner planes and basic aerobatic planes always make the sale volume.

The production of bigger WW2 planes in the GWS series was very promising.The introduction of the P40 , P38 was met with so much excitement when we saw it as an indication of bigger WW2 war birds. However, all of us know that didnt happen, what came was the edfs. Eventhough j-10, a4 and the me 262 we greatin their on rights but I doubt it generated the funds and money needed to produce the next mould.

Edfs are very specific and technically challenging facets of electric rc. Buying the right combination of components is as difficult as bulding and flying the planes. Owing to the speed of this planes, the survival rate is by far lesser than the warbirds hence the dissapointment and push off factors are very high, also compounding problems like wrong published control throws doesnt help.

I would like to suggest, that the new scale up version of WW2 warbirds be expanded. Imagine a mustang and corsair or zero in the scale of the current p-40 and p-38 would be excellent planes for flyers and builders. A plane that uses 2200 3S brushless system spining a 250 to 300 Watts motor swinging 10 to 12' propeller would be exciting as most flyers will have these battery aleady from edfs and electric helis. It may be apparent that this might compete with the older and smaller range of warbirds, well it is time to leave them behind, those are old technology and have delivered what they promised.

I would also like to suggest, GWS concentrate on airframe and perhaps servos. Leave the power system, batteries and chargers to outside vendors. Batteries and motors technologyis changing faster that we can say 'rare earth'. commiting huge resources to R and D in these fields are expensive and difficult as there are so many dedicated motor and batt manufacturers. eg Dualsky and GS motor.

Gws would do so much better concentrating in developing great airframes as it was doing in the begining. Fw 190, p-51 mustang, spitfire mk 14 bubble canopy, zero, f4u corsair would be excellent candidate in the same scale as the current p38 and p40. In this bigger scale, the adaptation of retracts is also possible opening and entire revenue of scale building. Having said all this, scale dimension(looks) and flyingcharacter is of paramount importance.

The right customer is always right, not all customer. In business building, it is good to control cost and give the best value for money but it doent necessary mean the cheapest all the time. All of us would pay a little more if we know for a fact that we will be paying for something of better quality. That is how tamiya and kyosho survives. GWS has mature enough to start producing these range of product. May not make a lot of money but it would raise the perceived standard across entire product range. eg a super scale upgrade set for P-51, canopy, cockpit details, scale retracts.

I grew up with gws in my rc development. As such I would be very happy to see GWS grow and prosper whilst continuing to support electric RC.
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