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Old Aug 17, 2012, 04:58 PM
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United States, FL, West Melbourne
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I now have two BW type motors. Both from HURC one 1700 and the other 3000. One burned one broken wires.

Anyone want to tutor a totally ignorant but eager learner?

You can reply or PM.

Thanks

Rick
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 05:13 PM
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United States, FL, Pompano Beach
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Do you know what the wind is on the motors at this time. There are some excellent tutorials here I can direct you to that will do a far better job in the pics than I can do with words. An easy indicator as a clue to what winding format the motor currently has is to count the magnets (poles) and the teeth on the stator (N) 9N or 12N 16P=ABC wind 14P=dlrk wind (most likely) I think all BW are 12N but they have been wound ABC and dLRK IME. Hence the magnet count should verify what is on there. There are only a few combinations of P and N that work well. So if you have 16P your wind will need to stay ABC and so on. Do you want to change the Kv or stick with the OEM?
As a side note there are allot of pics that represent the concept of winding but really are not meant to show the actual technique of winding. It caused me allot of confusion and frustration when I first started because I was trying to wind a motor according to an artists perception. Although there is a pay off for the learning curve pretty much any motor that can successfully be dissembled can be made better than the OEM windings. Even inexpensive motors like Turnigys have the potential for gobs of power.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 09:03 PM
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United States, FL, West Melbourne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroback View Post
Do you know what the wind is on the motors at this time. There are some excellent tutorials here I can direct you to that will do a far better job in the pics than I can do with words. An easy indicator as a clue to what winding format the motor currently has is to count the magnets (poles) and the teeth on the stator (N) 9N or 12N 16P=ABC wind 14P=dlrk wind (most likely) I think all BW are 12N but they have been wound ABC and dLRK IME. Hence the magnet count should verify what is on there. There are only a few combinations of P and N that work well. So if you have 16P your wind will need to stay ABC and so on. Do you want to change the Kv or stick with the OEM?
As a side note there are allot of pics that represent the concept of winding but really are not meant to show the actual technique of winding. It caused me allot of confusion and frustration when I first started because I was trying to wind a motor according to an artists perception. Although there is a pay off for the learning curve pretty much any motor that can successfully be dissembled can be made better than the OEM windings. Even inexpensive motors like Turnigys have the potential for gobs of power.
The 3000 kv (20 amp) has 14 magnets and 12 teeth. I don't know much else about winding and the broken lead has 8 wires joined together. I would be happy to keep the same specs but am open to other ideas. Looking for speed in a 24" WS delta.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 07:08 AM
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http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=31575 This is link may help with, "open to ideas".
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=736580 This link shows the technique to wind dLRK Star and dLRK delta.
Once you know what kv your shooting for than wire size (as big as possible) can be determined.
Is the stator ready for wire?
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroback View Post
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=31575 This is link may help with, "open to ideas".
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=736580 This link shows the technique to wind dLRK Star and dLRK delta.
Once you know what kv your shooting for than wire size (as big as possible) can be determined.
Is the stator ready for wire?
I can strip it down tonight. Should I be taking notes on how it's wound now or just do it. If I reduce one wind I might not need to buy wire. If I am starting with new wire I have no clue where to get it and what size to get. If this sounds like I'm clueless then I guess you're getting the right idea. I could buy a new motor but this whole thing interests me. If successful it could be a fun thing to share with my 7th graders.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 05:59 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
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Motor (re)winding tips, tricks, manuals, videos, checks and tests, may save you from frying motor and/or controller:
(Re)winding and building motors - RCG (sticky in this subforum)

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 02:05 PM
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Noting what the winding turn count is important but not always possible. Epoxy is the problem along with inconsistency in factory winds. One tooth has 5T the next has 4 the next 4 the next 7 and the rest of it sort of explodes in the process of stripping the old wire. That's a worse case example but shows it's a crap shoot to some degree or a box of chocolates. Maybe the info can be found on OEM website, but if not all the info you need can be found here in EMDaC. Although the less problems that you encounter on the first wind the better. That's why looking through previous posts I see the experts at this skill recommend low/ no epoxy motors so as to get the hang of it. I concur. Stator recovery from the missing green goo (it's actually powder coating ) is another task in itself. Nothing is more frustrating than getting to the end of motor assy and find a short. Low grade wire and stators has allot more potential for shorting. Good powerful motors can be made from lower grade stators but the preparation can be time consuming, but this is a hobby.
All that being said I don't know how goopy your stator is but it's good to know info.
Besides trying to get the turn count noting what size and how many strands (if it applies) make up a phase. The general philosophy is to use a single strand as large as will physically fit, until the wire is so large and strong the hand can't effectively bend it. Then the multi strands to make up a phase is used.
Keep in mind this is the 2730 thread so lots of good info here although it's long.
So in summery it's good info to try to retrieve but if not, especially with this motor, " you can get there from here". Hope that's some help.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 03:24 PM
hass-alfed and bass-ackwards
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United States, AZ, Chandler
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Has anyone ever tried that black, rubberized CA to touch up a messy stator before winding?
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 03:28 PM
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United States, WA, Seattle
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Go back to the beginning of the thread. Often the most useful info is in the first few pages of most long threads, then they start rambling and becoming social vehicles. If you are persistent little gems will continue to crop up but at a lower discovery level.

The exception to that is the anticipation of a new plane not yet out.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 05:14 PM
Sorry, but they're all toys.
Eric Odle's Avatar
United States, WA, Bellingham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlsoti View Post
Has anyone ever tried that black, rubberized CA to touch up a messy stator before winding?
Yup. It works! I forget which loctite it is though, search for loctite on this thread it and will come up. Knock on copper, I have yet to have a shorted wind.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 05:59 PM
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USA, NC, Huntersville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Odle View Post
Yup. It works! I forget which loctite it is though, search for loctite on this thread it and will come up. Knock on copper, I have yet to have a shorted wind.
It's Loctite 410. www.GoBrushless.com carries it but their website seems to be down at the moment.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 07:13 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
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And there has just been a recent breakthrough or discovery in the process of removing epoxy coated windings. User vtdiy used a hot air plastic welding rig to remove the winding from a motor recently and it appears to have worked well and also left the original stator coating undamaged. Details and photos here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=48

That device projects a small stream of hot air (adjustable for volume and temperature) and he was able to follow the wind, focusing the heat at the point of adhesion as the wire bundle was unwound.

So that is encouraging. I have used a butane micro torch with a small pinpoint flame, and done a similar thing. The hot air thing probably has a more focused heat and less potential for damaging the surroundings.

Loctite 410 - Here is the tech sheet on Loctite 410, I had good luck with it but found it kind of expensive ($20 or so on eBay?). Part of the expense came from the fact that I got a small bottle that would have been enough for several stators but after I used it once and it worked well for me the remainder hardened in the (properly closed) container and the rest of it was useless to me.

If I try it again I will get the smaller package from Micro-Dan...

Jack
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 08:10 PM
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I left the 3000 kv with a friend who recently put a rewind BW type on a cheap n easy with 290 watts out put. He picked up some high heat copper wire at a garage sale and had a 205 degree motor at the end of this flight
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=522

Has to be seen to be believed. I asked him for advice and he took it. Hopefully I will get something sane in return but one can't guarantee that with him!

I will start to work on the 1700 this week and get back after stripping.
Once again check out this link! His wind I saw today was putting out 310 watts and stays cool!

Rick
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 08:39 PM
Jack
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He is getting 290 Watts into a 40 gram motor? That is about 7 Watts per gram and might be a world record if it is true.

Jack
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 08:51 PM
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The Loctite works to some degree. It won't hold up under the pressure of trying to bend larger single strand wire around it. It is "rubberized". I found it to be OK for 25,26,27 and up but when the 22 ,23 and iffy on 24, come out, it's support becomes sketchy. Although this will vary depending on difficulty of wind. Couple of other issues with the Loctite is the unpredictable shelf life of the stuff and price. (as was mentioned) So I have found it is reliably unreliable. But by no means useless.

2730 14T LRK star, 22AWG APC 7X4E peak consumption , 28A and 290W on 3S 13.5K RPM
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