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Old Aug 02, 2009, 12:40 PM
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Dave are you sure you just haven't paid the ransom to have Excel on your computer. I bought it, and it took me a while to find it. It came in the same area at Rip Mart with the OP systems, and costed a good bit more. I thought it was another OP sys. To boot, you have to buy it with all the other crap on it, whether you want to pay for it or not. Paying for a crappy reader only, that you can surf and find for free isn't worth it either.
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Old Aug 02, 2009, 01:05 PM
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Carmichael, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timocharis
In other news, I'm one of those who is Windows Challenged and cannot open excel files.

Dave
Dave, since you've done most of the work, I made an HTML version just for you. You could pick up something from the next e-waste collection, and setup a Linux box with Open Office. Heck, if you were in the area I'd give you one of my aging Linux boxes.

Kev
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Old Aug 02, 2009, 02:39 PM
Dave North
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Originally Posted by Truglodite
...setup a Linux box with Open Office.
Oh poo, I forgot about that. I have a dual atom board set up with ubuntu/openbox ... but I never install openoffice -- it's even worse than that horrid microsoft stuff. I suppose I could canopener it with gnumeric (which I also hate). But it looks like my problem is solved anyway ... thanks!

Fourth from the bottom is a tricky one. That is 22 turns per tooth 27 awg with two sets of two teeth in parallel (per phase). Essentially that's the same thing as 11T double-strand but there are subtle differences, particularly in winding efficiency. But I'm not sure there's any better way to handle it than the approach you took, so why am I blathering?


Dave
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Old Aug 02, 2009, 10:20 PM
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Arizona
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Red vs Blue

Anybody here have a HTX & a Turngy of the same kv?? I was wondering all things being equal is one more efficent, or provide more thrust, or seem cooler after a run. Please no links to preprinted data. Just owner info. Thanks in advance. Mike
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Old Aug 03, 2009, 12:44 AM
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Here's a snippet of data comparing the 1300 RPM/V motors. 5% efficiency is nothing to scoff at. My R&B motors either come down cooler, have more thrust, or both. To me the difference in the air is obvious. The main reason R&B's are more efficient is simple: thinner stator laminations.

Cheers,
Kev
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Old Aug 03, 2009, 01:45 AM
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Dave,
No need to get out your can openers. I'll change the XLS file in my blog to HTML, and do my best to maintain it.

Glad correctly I interpreted your 22T as a double. I have to admit I paused for a minute to double check that your 32T was indeed a 32T; that was far from where I normally play. Any plans to take on more multi-strand? I personally haven't done a multi because A) most of the Chinese multi-strands I've seen have half the copper of a basic single, and B) I'm put off by the idea of having to strip insulation for 2 motors just to fly one. It wouldn't be so bad if I had more of that enamel coat wire that strips with a soldering iron. The 200C spike insulation takes 3 swipes with a razor per "facet", so it can take almost 5min to prep the standard 6 wires for tinning.

Cheers,
Kev
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Old Aug 03, 2009, 09:27 AM
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Thank You

Thank you very much for the info. Thats the kind of info I hope to be able to give. Solid real experience based on your flights. The test data, while not identical IMHO, ie: 11v--Rino 3s 610 would seem to support your personal observations--even after allowing for a slightly different power source, margin of error between testors & possibly method & equipmemt. Timocharis has helped me out in the past (thanks again)and I believe he uses' what he builds making his data even more useful. All his customers probably think the same. I think you two guys are in the same catagory VERY HELPFUL. To the other guys that just post links to data and other threads Thank you for your time also. Sincerely Mike Oh sorry for posting in this forum instead of POWER SYSTEMS
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Old Aug 03, 2009, 11:09 AM
Dave North
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite
Any plans to take on more multi-strand? I personally haven't done a multi because A) most of the Chinese multi-strands I've seen have half the copper of a basic single, and B) I'm put off by the idea of having to strip insulation for 2 motors just to fly one.
I'm still not sure we're on the same page here. I'm using only one wire per tooth, so it's not multi strand. On the 22, for example, I wind 22 turns with one wire, but only wind two teeth. Then I wind the other two teeth with another 22 turns. Then those two sets of two are wired in parallel.

But you're right about the stripping. It's a bit of a pain.

p51^2: I sure do use what I build. Well, some of 'em anyway. Others I know I won't be able to use, but I'm curious what they'll do. One of the interesting things is learning how the static tests relate to the actual performance in the air, which is a complicated subject in itself.

But that interest is why, for example, I use batteries rather than a power supply, and mount the motor the same way it would normally be used on a plane. This does not give me standardized results, for which there is at least as much value as what I do (and probably more) but it does give me an idea of what will happen when prop meets sky.


Dave
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Old Aug 03, 2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timocharis
I'm still not sure we're on the same page here. I'm using only one wire per tooth, so it's not multi strand. On the 22, for example, I wind 22 turns with one wire, but only wind two teeth. Then I wind the other two teeth with another 22 turns. Then those two sets of two are wired in parallel.

Dave
Ooh, I see. That's a very interesting concept. I was thrown off when you said it's basically an 11T. So you are saying it behaves like an 11T although it actually has 22T? I assume this is because the effective resistance is the same, and current*turns~flux. I can imagine there would be a slight advantage in that you would eliminate 2 transitions that normally bend across the bottom of the stator gap.

Thanks for adding another tool to my rewind box Dave!

Kev
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Old Aug 03, 2009, 10:35 PM
Dave North
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Originally Posted by Truglodite
So you are saying it behaves like an 11T although it actually has 22T?
Egg zackly. In the end, I think the total wire length is the same because of termination issues*. The real advantage? You can do things that might otherwise be unreasonable or difficult with a single thick wire (or use wire you do have rather than wait for wire you don't have right now). It's certainly an improvement over multistranding (which I hate, hate, hate).

I seem overtalky today. Hmm.


Dave

* It is possible, by using a bit of extra wire, to eliminate the intertooth transition in dLRK using this method (I'm sure you can figure out how). In some winds, that transition is a horror, and seeing it go away is bliss...
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timocharis
* It is possible, by using a bit of extra wire, to eliminate the intertooth transition in dLRK using this method (I'm sure you can figure out how).
A while back when I read through your original DLRK tutorial, I got in the habit of keeping the first few turns on the second tooth a bit looser than normal. After an "accident" where I made the first turn "too loose", I learned how to eliminate that transition without a splice. Thanks!

Cheers,
Kev
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 11:27 AM
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Mexico, BC, Mexicali
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For big motors, i like to wind with 6 wires.
And starting in the middle of the two teeth.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868248

Manuel V.
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Last edited by manuel v; Aug 04, 2009 at 11:53 AM.
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Old Aug 05, 2009, 09:04 PM
Dave North
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USA, CA, San Jose
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22 Turns, 26 awg

Microdan hi-temp wire in this case. Seems to be a pretty strong wind:

Tgy 2730 22T 26awg dLRK Delta Kv 1375 Io = 0.49 Rm = 0.152
GWS 8040 HD Rhino 610 3S
10993 rpm @ 10.93v/10.13a
Badcock: 621 grams 21.9 oz/thrust 77.3% Efficient
Drive Calc: 685 grams 24.2 oz/thrust 79.2% Efficient

If you like 'em quiet and muscular, it's worth a shot. Fiendishly annoying wind in places.


Dave
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Old Aug 05, 2009, 09:31 PM
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Michigan
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Your winding is "superhuman"!
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Old Aug 06, 2009, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveFLIGHT!
Your winding is "superhuman"!
You are right!

Manuel V.
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