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Old Feb 17, 2011, 11:56 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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OK, I just wondered if it had been tried yet. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a LRK stator. You old timers know all the details...

Jack
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 02:35 PM
TeachSeventh
W5BSA's Avatar
Houston
Joined Dec 2008
114 Posts
LRK and DLRK First Timer 2730 Red and Blacks

Hey Guys,

Been following this thread for well over a year and first time to post regarding some recent rewind trials. I have used the 1300, 1500, 1700 and 3000 KV models both HK and Turnigy 2730's for a long time. Recently my gang of park flyer's have built the same model of a foam delta known at the 2EZ. One of my 3000 KV gave up the ghost so I stripped the 12 pole stator and using Micro Dan's 26 AWG I rewound it DLRK. It has 14 magnets. Each pole has 15 turns. I run a Rhino 20C 3S 610 Mah. The prop is a Master Airscrew 5.5 x 4.5. I just received today a brand new 2730 / 1500 from Hobby King. You can see the windings on it as compared to my hand wind on the old stator. For a first timer mine is neater and better packed and has more winds per pole. My objective is to get more RPM using a 3S 610Mah Rhino 20 C versus the standard 1500KV version but less RPM but lower current draw than the 300KV version on 3s and same setup. I also had another 2730 that I have wound LRK and will terminate delta. It has 9 turns on 6 poles of 22 AWG. It just barely clears on the buns when the shell is mounted. I am going to start off with the 5.5 x 4.5 Master Airscrew as well. I have been trying to use the web calculator by Badcock but I am not sure of the minimum information I have input to come up with the unknowns. Hope that makes sense. Any tips on using the online Badcock calculator would be appreciated. Please feel free to comment on what you think my results may be for these two rewinds. Thanks much, Joe Ross ARS W5BSA
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 03:44 PM
Sorry, but they're all toys.
Eric Odle's Avatar
United States, WA, Bellingham
Joined Jun 2009
292 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes View Post
Eric,

I think your link is frammitzed. It may be that you did a Click, Drag, and Copy to get it. When you do that here all you get is what you see displayed, not the full link as it is embedded in the post. If you right click and choose "Copy Link Location..." you'll get the full link.

Example, in your post I see this:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...6&d=1275896709

When I copy the link location I get the exact same thing:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...6&d=1275896709

so it means that all the stuff between "..." and "6&d=1275896709" is missing from the link.

Not nagging on you, I was curious as to what the spreadsheet is about.

If the link was to Trug's rewind-RBW2.xls with the list of winds, you can get that from his blog page:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...3&d=1254193700

Jack

Ooops, well it seemed like a good idea at the time! Next time I'll click the link and copy it from the top of my browser. Thanks for setting me straight...

And yes that is the RBW2 sheet, which I've found to be very useful. Especially since my next project will use a GWS 8040 - lots of info on that one! Hopefully it carries over well enough to the Red and Blacks.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 07:14 PM
Registered User
salt lake ut
Joined Oct 2009
63 Posts
newbie Q

ok i think im doing this Tgy 10T 23awg ABC Wye

it is on the chart, (thanx ERic! ended up looking at it more)

any body done 10 turns ?how hard is it to get 10 turns of 23 awg?
or is this too tough, should i use 24 awg?

I am a newbie.

this is for a 2 cell gws 9050 3der, rewinding a 2730-1500, i am at 5000 ft msl, hoping for little more thrust

also is the factory 2730 -1500 tgy11t26awg ABC Wye? mainly interested in the wire size

feel free to point and laugh at me if i screwed up above, as this is like some new language to me!
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 07:25 PM
I'm overcoming gravity!
Murman's Avatar
USA, NC, Huntersville
Joined Jul 2008
3,851 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeneck View Post
...I am a newbie.
Then you've come to the right place. These guys have taught me a lot. I'm sure one of the experts will chime in really soon to help you out. Good luck with your rewind.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 11:52 PM
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Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W5BSA View Post
I am going to start off with the 5.5 x 4.5 Master Airscrew as well. I have been trying to use the web calculator by Badcock but I am not sure of the minimum information I have input to come up with the unknowns.
I know Phil (Dr Kiwi) has developed thrust constants for MAS props, but neither Badcock nor Drive Calculator have MAS power constants. So the unknowns you're probably after simply don't exist, at least not that I know of (the German's do most of the prop dyno testing). So if you're trying to estimate efficiency you'll have settle for a close match from the prop lists in Badcock or DCalc. An APC 5.5x4.5e should be close, but historically MAS is a larger load than APC.

Here's all I found from my collection of TGY2730-14p data (measured thrust, DCalc effy):
12T-24awg-Delta/2583Kv/APC 5.5x4.5e/21164RPM/11.50V/26.07A/25oz/59.1%

15.5T-25awg-Delta/1988Kv/APC 6x4e/17843RPM/11.96V/15.87A/24.4oz/70.8%

15T-25awg-Delta/2073Kv/APC 6x4e/18120RPM/11.78V/16.96A/26oz/71.3%

I've never tested a stock 3000Kv, but I'm guessing the above winds use less amps. 15.5T is way too hot for a 3s610. I'm guessing you're getting around 7-8A with the stock 1500Kv (which is actually closer to 1600Kv in reality)... maybe somewhere around 1750Kv would be pushing the 610's where you want to.. If so, a 18T-26awg-delta or 10T-23awg-Y would be a good start. 10T-23 can be difficult, but 24awg will still be more fun than stock.

Not sure what to predict on your LRK wind. I've never played with those; and I can't see how you'd get a reasonable packing with LRK, considering rotor clearance barely allows enough wire for a dLRK wind to fill the gaps.

Cheers,
Kev
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 11:58 PM
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Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeneck View Post
ok i think im doing this Tgy 10T 23awg ABC Wye

it is on the chart, (thanx ERic! ended up looking at it more)

any body done 10 turns ?how hard is it to get 10 turns of 23 awg?
or is this too tough, should i use 24 awg?

I am a newbie.

this is for a 2 cell gws 9050 3der, rewinding a 2730-1500, i am at 5000 ft msl, hoping for little more thrust

also is the factory 2730 -1500 tgy11t26awg ABC Wye? mainly interested in the wire size

feel free to point and laugh at me if i screwed up above, as this is like some new language to me!
10T-23awg is not a newbie wind (dejas vus). 24awg will be fine, and way better than any stock wind. Yes, the factory 1500 is 11T-26awg-Y, which is a pathetic 1.375mm^2 of copper. The average RCG newbie can fit around 2.2mm^2 in dLRK, or 2.4mm^2 ABCx4.

[edit: Wait a minute, I thought your were talking about dLRK. 10T-23awg ABC isn't nearly as difficult. Maybe a challenging newbie wind, but I'd still call it possible.]

Good luck,
Kev

ps: You're proper usage of motor slang is enviable to most motor newb's actually.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 01:51 AM
TeachSeventh
W5BSA's Avatar
Houston
Joined Dec 2008
114 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite View Post
I know Phil (Dr Kiwi) has developed thrust constants for MAS props, but neither Badcock nor Drive Calculator have MAS power constants. So the unknowns you're probably after simply don't exist, at least not that I know of (the German's do most of the prop dyno testing). So if you're trying to estimate efficiency you'll have settle for a close match from the prop lists in Badcock or DCalc. An APC 5.5x4.5e should be close, but historically MAS is a larger load than APC.

Here's all I found from my collection of TGY2730-14p data (measured thrust, DCalc effy):
12T-24awg-Delta/2583Kv/APC 5.5x4.5e/21164RPM/11.50V/26.07A/25oz/59.1%

15.5T-25awg-Delta/1988Kv/APC 6x4e/17843RPM/11.96V/15.87A/24.4oz/70.8%

15T-25awg-Delta/2073Kv/APC 6x4e/18120RPM/11.78V/16.96A/26oz/71.3%

I've never tested a stock 3000Kv, but I'm guessing the above winds use less amps. 15.5T is way too hot for a 3s610. I'm guessing you're getting around 7-8A with the stock 1500Kv (which is actually closer to 1600Kv in reality)... maybe somewhere around 1750Kv would be pushing the 610's where you want to.. If so, a 18T-26awg-delta or 10T-23awg-Y would be a good start. 10T-23 can be difficult, but 24awg will still be more fun than stock.

Not sure what to predict on your LRK wind. I've never played with those; and I can't see how you'd get a reasonable packing with LRK, considering rotor clearance barely allows enough wire for a dLRK wind to fill the gaps.

Cheers,
Kev
Thanks Kev,
I believe I will go with your 10T-24awg-Y suggestion. I like your comment more fun than stock and that will probably give me the advantage I am looking for in our Saturday morning combat outings. Thanks again, Joe
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 04:41 PM
Sorry, but they're all toys.
Eric Odle's Avatar
United States, WA, Bellingham
Joined Jun 2009
292 Posts
Red & Black & Blue

Interesting... I was just peeling at the plastic coating on my latest 2730 project, thinking I might be able to remove the "Turnigy 2730-3000" writing since I'm going to rewind it to something more like 1550kv. I peeled off the coating and my black motor turned blue!

So these really are still red & blue wonders!
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 08:00 PM
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Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,513 Posts
They come with laser etched lettering, and are shipped with kapton tape to protect the black anodizing finish. Looks like yours has an unusually light anodizing, so it looks sorta blue (the original versions came bright blue with painted lettering, and no tape). The tape is supposed to be peeled off before use, but I'm sure lots of people are using them with the tape still on... wonder how many got pissed when the tape started falling off after some use.

Cheers,
Kev
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 08:48 PM
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cool..very nice!
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 08:38 PM
Registered User
salt lake ut
Joined Oct 2009
63 Posts
thx everybody!

Tgy 10T 24awg ABC Wye

just rewinded mine, worked on second shot! (ran backwards on first shot)

i am getting a thrust stand to see how it does to factory motor.
flies great!
thanks for all the help everybody!

coulple of tips for newbies

1. do not loose retaining clip (maby take retaining clip off in a plastic bag) mine is still mia in living room somewhere. (is no clip a big deal? magnet is holding strong)

2. I used pebbbles to keep track of how many winds i have done. do not underestimate how hard it is to keep track of winds.

3. easy to wrap wrong stator, before second turn, take a fresh look.

I was going to try 23 but glad i didng, this one is tight enough, my hats off to guys cramming copper in!

very satisfying! thanks all.
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Old Feb 23, 2011, 05:59 AM
I'm overcoming gravity!
Murman's Avatar
USA, NC, Huntersville
Joined Jul 2008
3,851 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokeneck View Post
Tgy 10T 24awg ABC Wye

just rewinded mine, worked on second shot! (ran backwards on first shot)
I want to clarify what I just read....After you found the motor running backwards, did you remove the wire and rewind it?
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Old Feb 23, 2011, 12:51 PM
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salt lake ut
Joined Oct 2009
63 Posts
sorry that was unclear, 1st attempt ran backwards, to fix/for second just attempt just swaped esc wires.
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Old Feb 23, 2011, 06:32 PM
I'm overcoming gravity!
Murman's Avatar
USA, NC, Huntersville
Joined Jul 2008
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Good. I was hoping you weren't that that "green".
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