HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 30, 2010, 09:35 PM
Registered User
Atlanta
Joined Jan 2010
8 Posts
Well, thanks everyone for your help with this chattering at start up problem. It isn't fixed, I've just given up till I get ahold of another brand ESC. I did finally get a video uploaded to utube. Have a look at the chattering and cogging and see if there is anything you can tell me.

I decided to install the slightly heavier Turnigy C2822-1400, puts out slightly more power. I'll have to be carefull not to torque roll my microtele into the ground.

Turnigy 2730-1300 chatter (1 min 15 sec)
gregallen is offline Find More Posts by gregallen
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 30, 2010, 09:56 PM
3DHS 'native'
going4speed's Avatar
USA, TX, Spring
Joined Jan 2008
5,929 Posts
I have had this happen with a short as well as wiring the wrong wires together during a rewind. Can also be a cold solder connection at the bullets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregallen View Post
Well, thanks everyone for your help with this chattering at start up problem. It isn't fixed, I've just given up till I get ahold of another brand ESC. I did finally get a video uploaded to utube. Have a look at the chattering and cogging and see if there is anything you can tell me.

I decided to install the slightly heavier Turnigy C2822-1400, puts out slightly more power. I'll have to be carefull not to torque roll my microtele into the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecV3ihJzHck
going4speed is offline Find More Posts by going4speed
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2010, 03:11 AM
Registered Aircraft Offender
Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,537 Posts
Greg,

Did you have the esc brake turned on during that video?

Was that an 8x6?

Make sure braking is turned "off", your 7"sf is installed, and try it again. If it still has problems, then we can make a better judgement. It may well be shorted windings and/or incorrect termination, but it could also be too big a prop and/or mechanical binding. From that video alone, it could be any combination of these things. Note that if you disconnect the esc from the motor, and the motor wires aren't touching each other, when you spin the prop with your fingers (fast) it should "freewheel" for some time before it stops. If it "brakes itself", there's most certainly a problem with the mechanicals and/or windings.

If you're stuck with APC, I'd use an APC 9x3.8sf on your setup. It wouldn't hurt to ask your LHS to order some GWS props for you though.

To answer your other question: some of us are using Eagle Tree data loggers to get RPMs, others are using optical tach's. Most people start out with an optical tach, and eventually upgrade to loggers if they get deeper in to motors.

Kev
Truglodite is offline Find More Posts by Truglodite
Last edited by Truglodite; Jan 31, 2010 at 03:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2010, 09:37 AM
Registered User
Atlanta
Joined Jan 2010
8 Posts
I can't remember if the brake was on or not. I've had it both on & off and it still chattered. Remember it did this exact same thing new out of the box. It still did it after I rewound it. I checked for shorts to the stator and each phase before I soldered, everything was good. I've changed out the soldered connectors and wire, with no change.

That was an APC 8x6 prop, that model can't handle anything longer or it will strike the ground, so I haven't bought any 9" props.

Is that cogging in the begging normal? Or is it too hard to tell from the vid? There is no mechanical binding. Is it possible that the magnets or too strong?

Greg
gregallen is offline Find More Posts by gregallen
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2010, 10:06 AM
Registered User
USA, NC, Hendersonville
Joined Jul 2005
787 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregallen View Post
Is that cogging in the begging normal? Or is it too hard to tell from the vid? There is no mechanical binding. Is it possible that the magnets or too strong?

Greg
you have some great minds already helping. I just dropped in and have some observations.

if you can, the first thing I would do is pull the stator and observe the magnet faces for indication of rubbing.

put a magnet on the end of a coffee stirrer and go around the magnets to be sure the magnets are +-+- all around.

it sounds to me like there is binding, especially watching the prop slam to a stop

I've lost track if you are DLRK with 14 magnets or ABC with 16. The DLRK wind is not normally a newbe wind ........ not to ask the obvious, but are you sure you have it correct?

for an outrunner the ESC should be set for FAST start.

My money is still on a mechanical issue
fanfoldfan is offline Find More Posts by fanfoldfan
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2010, 10:24 PM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2007
1,509 Posts
Hi

I have a RW 1300 on a 7oz ship with a 9x4.7 GWS SF and a 2S 460 I would like a snappier pullout from the hover

so whats my best course of action a RW 1500 maybe ?

or a rewind on a 16 magnet or maybe 14 magnet RW

ug ,I see the 1500, uses a 7x3 or smaller , Which motor is best as a 2S the 16 mag or the 14 mag , I may have to rewind
NX-687 is online now Find More Posts by NX-687
Last edited by NX-687; Jan 31, 2010 at 10:29 PM. Reason: Add to
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2010, 10:46 PM
Dave North
timocharis's Avatar
USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
5,254 Posts
Assuming you don't want to rewind, the 1700 2S with the 8040 prop is a much better choice if you want snappy. The 0947 is a lumbering dumbo of a slofly prop -- great for that purpose but ... the 8040 is a zzzzzt prop.


Dave
timocharis is offline Find More Posts by timocharis
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2010, 10:49 PM
Registered Aircraft Offender
Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,537 Posts
12T-D 3s Flight testing - Good news guys!

I got to flight test my scrappy with the 12T-24a-delta/tp 3s850 PP/GCS5.2^2, and I have mixed emotions. First the bad news, a doppler of the video showed about 90mph, which is no improvement over the motor it used to have. That's a minor bump in the road considering the good news... it was much quieter, and after a 5min balls to the wall flight it landed absolutely cold... the windings, bearing tube, magnets... everything was cold to the touch!

That tells me A) under the right conditions, 250W continuous is nothing for a blue wonder, and B) there's a ton of room for more power. Since I'd have to order oversquare props, I'm going to rewind instead. I have no swg or half gages, so I'm thinking about skipping the 11T-24awg and going right for the 10T-23awg... maybe drop down to my 4.7^2.

Anyhow, I'm thoroughly impressed with the performance as is, but my goal was to break 100mph with that scrappy. I think this R'n'BW is going to be up to the task.

Cheers,
Kevin
Truglodite is offline Find More Posts by Truglodite
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2010, 10:49 PM
Registered User
Paducah, KY
Joined Jan 2010
178 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregallen View Post
Is that cogging in the begging normal? Or is it too hard to tell from the vid? There is no mechanical binding. Is it possible that the magnets or too strong?

Greg
My 2730 1300 does the exact same "cogging" sound when you turn it with your fingers. It is the magnets passing the gates that makes it do that. Now your studder on start up might be a timing issue?? Dunno because mine doesn't do that on a HK 8-10 esc.

Orion13
orion13 is offline Find More Posts by orion13
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2010, 11:23 PM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2007
1,509 Posts
Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by timocharis View Post
Assuming you don't want to rewind, the 1700 2S with the 8040 prop is a much better choice if you want snappy. The 0947 is a lumbering dumbo of a slofly prop -- great for that purpose but ... the 8040 is a zzzzzt prop.


Dave
thanks for the tip about the 8x4 and the 1500, although the smaller prop gives you a little less control at zero speed as it doesn't cover the controls as well as a 9x4
Im drawing 6.3 A at 7V now with the 9x4.7 GWS SF
NX-687 is online now Find More Posts by NX-687
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2010, 12:17 AM
Dave North
timocharis's Avatar
USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
5,254 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NX-687 View Post
thanks for the tip about the 8x4 and the 1500
1700
Quote:
although the smaller prop gives you a little less control at zero speed as it doesn't cover the controls as well as a 9x4
Im drawing 6.3 A at 7V now with the 9x4.7 GWS SF
Don't you believe it! The higher pitch speed of the 8040 makes up for it. However, if you're only pulling 6.3 amps and want to stay there, disregard my first comment. The 1500 would indeed be closer.


Dave
timocharis is offline Find More Posts by timocharis
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2010, 12:48 AM
Registered Aircraft Offender
Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,537 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregallen View Post
Is that cogging in the begging normal? Or is it too hard to tell from the vid? There is no mechanical binding. Is it possible that the magnets or too strong?

Greg
Greg, have you tried the 7" sf? I'm only trying to save you time here.

The accepted bare minimum pre-run tests for a rewind include a "dremel test" and a "short to stator test", but you can eliminate some problems without any tools.

By turning the rotor slowly like you did, we can't tell much of anything. Yes, cogging is normal, but, for lack of a better word, "magnetic braking" is not normal.

Spin the prop fast with the esc disconnected
(make sure the motor connectors aren't touching each other).

If it gradually slows to a stop (~2-3seconds), then you've eliminated the possibility of a stator and cross-phase type shorts. However there may still be an internal short, but you need special tools to diagnose that problem, and a motor will usually run OK with an internal short or two (just reduced efficiency and higher Kv).

If it stops suddenly as if it was being spun in a bowl of molasses, then there's probably a problem with your windings (stator or cross-phase short, or incorrect termination). Except for incorrect termination, these problems will require another rewind to fix.

Please, at least try these things. I'm not trying to just blow smoke up your a**.

Kev
Truglodite is offline Find More Posts by Truglodite
Last edited by Truglodite; Feb 01, 2010 at 01:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2010, 01:54 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2007
1,509 Posts
Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by timocharis View Post
1700Don't you believe it! The higher pitch speed of the 8040 makes up for it. However, if you're only pulling 6.3 amps and want to stay there, disregard my first comment. The 1500 would indeed be closer.


Dave
Thanks for all the tips , this motor is addictive, I will try the 1500 with an 8x4

With my trusty $3 wattmeter I cant go wrong
NX-687 is online now Find More Posts by NX-687
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2010, 08:14 AM
Go ahead... Build it to crash!
Fuegodeth's Avatar
Conroe, TX
Joined Apr 2007
2,642 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite View Post
I got to flight test my scrappy with the 12T-24a-delta/tp 3s850 PP/GCS5.2^2, and I have mixed emotions. First the bad news, a doppler of the video showed about 90mph, which is no improvement over the motor it used to have. That's a minor bump in the road considering the good news... it was much quieter, and after a 5min balls to the wall flight it landed absolutely cold... the windings, bearing tube, magnets... everything was cold to the touch!

That tells me A) under the right conditions, 250W continuous is nothing for a blue wonder, and B) there's a ton of room for more power. Since I'd have to order oversquare props, I'm going to rewind instead. I have no swg or half gages, so I'm thinking about skipping the 11T-24awg and going right for the 10T-23awg... maybe drop down to my 4.7^2.

Anyhow, I'm thoroughly impressed with the performance as is, but my goal was to break 100mph with that scrappy. I think this R'n'BW is going to be up to the task.

Cheers,
Kevin

Sweet. My plane is nearing completion for me to try mine out. I was thinking about other wind possibilities for that motor. I was wondering if 6t of 21g star would be a useful wind for this. It might fall in between the other two.
Fuegodeth is offline Find More Posts by Fuegodeth
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 01, 2010, 12:48 PM
Registered Aircraft Offender
Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,537 Posts
I like the idea of using Y, and that wind would be only 100Kv lower than 10T-D, but 21awg on this stator doesn't sound like fun to me (corners are sharp, along with clearance up front...). I'm guessing 6Tx2-24a-Y (12T parallel) would be the way to go. 12T-24a fits nicely, and technically it would have .001mm^2 more copper than single strand 21a.

Kev
Truglodite is offline Find More Posts by Truglodite
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold 14-turn 25awg dLRK Turnigy "Blue'n'Red Wonder" Outrunner $23 Shipped timocharis Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 3 Mar 21, 2009 02:38 PM
Sold Rewound 13-turn 24awg Turnigy "Blue Wonder" Outrunner $24 Shipped timocharis Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 6 Mar 08, 2009 11:37 PM
blue core stringless wonder larry g Foamies (Kits) 9 May 27, 2003 11:06 AM