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Old Jan 11, 2010, 05:20 PM
five by five
sonicj's Avatar
Panama City Bch, FL
Joined Jan 2009
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is there a one-stop resource for information on wire transit techniques & their effects? this always has me second guessing myself in fear of doing it wrong! ie: how to transit a partial 3rd layer? what exactly does a silly transit technique look like? (most of us don't enjoy lookin' silly!) why do some motors transit on the opposite face of the stator?, etc....
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 06:33 PM
Dave North
timocharis's Avatar
USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
5,254 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicj View Post
is there a one-stop resource for information on wire transit techniques & their effects?
None that I know of.
Quote:
this always has me second guessing myself in fear of doing it wrong! ie: how to transit a partial 3rd layer?
I don't think there is a good way. These days I mostly start from the bottom to keep the tight part of the slot as clean as possible, but you have to deal with ending outside.
Quote:
what exactly does a silly transit technique look like?
In this case I'm talking about winding the tooth clockwise and then doing the tooth-to-tooth transit clockwise. Viewed from the head you get \**/ instead of |**|, which is not good.
Quote:
why do some motors transit on the opposite face of the stator?, etc....
That's basically cosmetic, so you don't see the transit wires. There are a zillion downsides (wire cut potential, hole in stator, crowding in the front of the motor) but it does look neat.

Dave
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 09:14 PM
Go ahead... Build it to crash!
Fuegodeth's Avatar
Conroe, TX
Joined Apr 2007
2,640 Posts
Hi all,
I have an ABC version of this, the 1300kv, and will be rewinding for an ideal setup of 8040 GWS prop on 3s and about 10A or so. It's for a light 3D plane, so mostly will be run at low throttle with some bursts. I have a few gages of wire on hand to try ...21, 22, 24, 26, 30, 32. I'm not sure how the winds work out on ABC vs DLRK as far as how many turns and what termination will yield a particular kv. There's more examples in this thread of results from dlrk and not so many ABC, so if you could give me a target wind to shoot for, that would be helpful. I'm guessing here that 13t of 24g Wye would be too hot for an 8" prop on 3s, but don't know how many turns of 26g I should be trying to pack on. Thanks in advance for the suggestions.
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 09:37 PM
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Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
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I posted the Kv/Turns/Termination chart (16pole is for ABC winds). 13T-24awg would be my first choice, being the easier wind (less turns), but some motors don't have the room up front, especially if you need to go 3-layer. 22 and 23T-26awg-delta usually fit better than the 13T though.

Kev

[edit: The image is hard to read thanks to limits of my small monitor. If you have excel, the spreadsheet is on my blog.]
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 10:16 PM
Dave North
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USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
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For the ABC version, 12 turns of 24awg is fine with an 8040 using a 3S 460. For an 0843 I might think about 13 turns, but it would still be fine at 12 if you wanted to make sure you weren't overdrawing your battery.


Dave
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 11:09 PM
Go ahead... Build it to crash!
Fuegodeth's Avatar
Conroe, TX
Joined Apr 2007
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Sounds great. I just got done doing 12t of 24g dlrk delta on the 14mag version for a friend to put on a small flying wing, so I know I can fit the 12t no problem on the stator, just terminate Wye and of course the ABC wind is no problem. I will be using 500mah 3s 25c and Phoenix 10 esc. Should be good to go.

BTW thanks for the great reference material Truglodite. I really like these little motors and will probably be working with them some more in the future.

They are great value, and really nice to work with. I just wish they would do away with circlips though. If the shaft had a head like a nail, then you could take apart the motor by just loosening the set screws on the front of the magnet bell and pull it off the shaft, and then the shaft can come out the back. That way you don't lose or damage a circlip whenever you work on a motor. I have learned to remove those little buggers with the motor in a ziploc bag so I don't lose them ,and then I put all the extra parts in the bag while I work on the stator. I take a piece of scotch tape and tape the circlip to the inside of the bag so I can't lose it. I have wasted an hour looking for one before and don't want to repeat that exercise.
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 11:56 PM
Dave North
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USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuegodeth View Post
I take a piece of scotch tape and tape the circlip to the inside of the bag so I can't lose it.
I'm too lazy for all of that. I just cover it with my finger while I remove it (nowhere for it to go) and then stick it to the magnets in the can while I rewind. Haven't lost one yet!

Dave
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 02:00 AM
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Carmichael, CA
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I used to get those off with the tips of my needle nose pliers, holding my finger on the other side to secure them. Then one time an e-clip came off abruptly and "pole vaulted" off my finger... lost forever. Now I push them off with my 2 thumbnails, holding 2 index fingers on the other side. It's a very secure method, but you need thick thumbnails.

I also used to keep e-clips and washers attached to the magnets; great idea if you aren't forgetful like me. One time I forgot about them and went to reinstall the rotor, which resulted in a chipped magnet. Ever since, I've got in the habit of using the magnetic tray on my work bench.

Kev
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 07:30 AM
Go ahead... Build it to crash!
Fuegodeth's Avatar
Conroe, TX
Joined Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timocharis View Post
I'm too lazy for all of that. I just cover it with my finger while I remove it (nowhere for it to go) and then stick it to the magnets in the can while I rewind. Haven't lost one yet!

Dave
I'm a very lazy person at heart... but after an hour scouring a dirty garage floor with a flashlight to avoid having to order a replacement was not a fun event. Balanced against that, the scotch tape thing is very easy to do. Plus, there's all the other little motor bits that come with them that I could lose and little set screws that could come out of the mount, etc. So, I just chuck it all in a ziploc otherwise it will end up mixed up with a jillion other partway dismantled things, and other tiny parts of hardware. My shop is a bit cluttered, as you might imagine.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 01:58 PM
C.H.E.A.P.
lance dalton's Avatar
Chino Hills, CA.
Joined Nov 2004
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12T 24AWG ABC...Awesome motor combo. I run a 8x4 DD with a Rhino 610 3s and it scoots. Motor/ESC/and lipo come down cool.

I've also lost a clip. Couldn't find it anywhere even with a magnet. Finally pulled the old vaccum bag from the trash bin. A magnet, a mess, and 15 minutes later I had my clip.

Lance
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 04:19 PM
Go ahead... Build it to crash!
Fuegodeth's Avatar
Conroe, TX
Joined Apr 2007
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Amazing how much value those clips have when you don't have spares. If it had been a $10 bill you probably wouldn't have torn the bag open.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 04:52 PM
Got Thermals???
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United States, UT, Roy
Joined Apr 2008
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This question bears asking, is the clip actually necessary? Is the thrust off this tiny motor/prop combo sufficient enough to overcome the electro magnetic forces?
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 04:56 PM
Go ahead... Build it to crash!
Fuegodeth's Avatar
Conroe, TX
Joined Apr 2007
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Not necessary in pusher, that's for sure.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 08:27 PM
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Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
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I've heard stories from people who actually had the gall to run a tractor setup with no clip. Allegedly it will work... sort of. They said efficiency drops off hard because the rotor pulls out a little bit. Those e-clips are valuable as diamonds some times aren't they?

The problem with running a pusher without a clip: what happens during a belly landing? I've thought of doing that to remove axial pressure from the "rear" bearing in pusher setups, but instead I use my press to give a tiny amount of play between the rear bearing and washer. I make 'em more snug on tractors though, at least in the sense that the rotor stays centered on the stator when the prop is pulling. With pushers, I add shims behind the rotor to keep it centered if there's too much forward movement. I have a bag of those shims from my RC car days... not sure exactly where you can get 'em though.

Kev

[edit: Ah, just remembered. Those shims are from an 1/8 scale buggy clutch!]
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 08:46 PM
Dave North
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USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
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That brain bumpiness is just galling

I'm one of those people with gall; we used to do it all the time. The cost in efficiency is not as bad as one might think if you're doing 3D, since the pullout only gets to be a problem during full-throttle bursts (rare). On-board logger showed a couple of percent loss, but not the end of the world. Never a problem with belly landings.

However, if the thrust washer and clip are correctly positioned, the motor will run better. So if you've got 'em, use 'em.

Of course, in a pusher it just doesn't much matter, though I have seen people have problems with landings if they're not using the clip. I never land my pushers anyway, except involuntarily -- I like to catch 'em. But even in crashes I seldom had a bell pop out. I can't actually remember it happening. The bonus? Without the clip, the shaft pulls out instead of jamming the clip against the rear bearing.


Dave
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