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Old Apr 16, 2009, 10:06 PM
Usual suspect.
St. Louis MO
Joined Feb 2007
929 Posts
I just got the three of these little beauts - 14mag 3000kv variety - the fit on them, as in the past with the older style, is really very nice for the $$. 2 of the 3 are even wound decently.
Found some sort of glue drizzled on the winds at the base of the poles on of one of them - a bit annoying, but it came off easily enough and the wires pulled right out of it.

Right now I'm trying to decide on a good first wind. I like the 14/13 idea but wonder if I'm up to it. I can manage a decent 12T of #24 newb on the tighter-toothed Motrol 2205, think thats good enough to get my 14/13 Wonder Wind Badge?

My intentions...
I'm kinda tired of spending big money on the nice ARF's, although right now I've got a few balsa kits ahead of me (Skeeter30 and a one-off profile using 3DH SR wings)
I'm looking forward to getting further into the cheaper side of RC with these motors and some scratch built FFF/EPP planes in the very near future.
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 12:41 AM
Dave North
timocharis's Avatar
USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
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These stators are a bit less "crowded" than the motro, so you'll find a turn more to be about the same. 13/14, I dunno. Worst that happens is you try and find it's a bit challenging <-- ya know.


Dave
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 08:46 AM
Usual suspect.
St. Louis MO
Joined Feb 2007
929 Posts
I might give the GB #25 a go at 14/13 (the tan stuff).
My #25 is about .03" thinner than my red #24 newb wire... that might be just enough of a weight loss to make life easier, but still deliver #24-type performance?

For awhile now I've been trying to figure out if the #24 newb has, in fact, more copper than the #25 tan stuff - or is it mostly insulation?
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Old Apr 17, 2009, 07:05 PM
Dave North
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Joined Apr 2004
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It should have about 1/3 more copper by mass. Sometimes wire is inconsistent, but the noob has been pretty good.

Dave
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 01:00 AM
Usual suspect.
St. Louis MO
Joined Feb 2007
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I'm not sure how the math works out on this, but here is what I got with calipers after I torched off the enamal and rubbed it with my fingers to a dull copper.

#24 GB Newbie was .021 before and .018 after.
#25 GB Tan wire was .019 before and .017 after

Does that line up with the sizes their supposed to be?
Doesnt seem like much of a difference, about 5.5% less in diameter for the #25.
All of that begs the question... is the copper quality of Dan's primo tan stuff measurably better than the Newbie wire, enough to make up for being a slightly smaller diameter?
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 09:44 AM
Dave North
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USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
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Assuming your measurements are correct, both wires are thin. An uncoated 25 awg should be very close to .018" and the 24 awg should caliper .020". So both samples are thin, but the 24 awg is "more thin."


Dave
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 11:08 AM
Usual suspect.
St. Louis MO
Joined Feb 2007
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Humm.. I checked again with my Central Tools caliper (Stainless steel at 73* tool temp) and the #25 remained consistent at .017"
The #24 re-measured .019" so I guess I was off a bit on that one.
For an additional comparison, my Newb #26 comes in at .0155"

After checking a AXI and Hacker shaft I got .1245" (3.162mm) and .1175" (2.984mm)
The shafts may be under on purpose to fit a exact bearing?

I suppose if my #24 is a wee thin it might be easier to fit the 14/13, but I'm betting the stator itself will make a much bigger difference.
Moreover, I'm left wondering if there would be any flight-perceptible difference between the #24 and #25... is the #24 worth the hassle to begin with?
I wind for purpose, not pleasure or experimentation... I'd rather do it once, can ya tell?
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Last edited by dashunde; Apr 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM.
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 09:38 PM
Dave North
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USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashunde
Moreover, I'm left wondering if there would be any flight-perceptible difference between the #24 and #25...
That is THE toughest question to answer. It depends on how you fly, how sensitive you are to motor characteristics, etc. I won't guess at percentages, but quite a few builders/fliers would be hard pressed to tell. Others would instantly know the difference.

Is it huge? No.


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Old Apr 29, 2009, 02:48 PM
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Just received a 3000KV blue'n'red wonder I intend to rewind. It is a 14 magnet motor. But I have a problem: I can easily spin the shaft without feeling much resistance. On a 16-magnet blue wonder I have to apply considerable amount of force to rotate the shaft. Is that difference because one motor has 16 magnets and another has 14, or is it simply a motor with bad magnets?
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Old Apr 29, 2009, 03:09 PM
//----\\
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Slovenia
Joined Mar 2008
676 Posts
no... the resistance it is called (cogging) because 16 pole motor it is wind ABC scheme and 14 pole it is LRK or dlrk.

everything is fine
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Old Apr 29, 2009, 03:09 PM
Usual suspect.
St. Louis MO
Joined Feb 2007
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You can wind it up just like this.
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Old Apr 29, 2009, 04:53 PM
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Thanks for the replies, guys. I knew what I was buying and how I should wind it. I just expected to see same cogging as with 16-magnet motor. I already rewound 3 motors, so I have some experience nad hope this one will come out fine too. Need a lite but powerful motor to power my (not yet finished) F4D Skyray park jet.
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Old Apr 29, 2009, 07:16 PM
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Mexico, BC, Mexicali
Joined Aug 2004
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Alex.
12, 13, 14 turn Delta, is powerfull for 5x5, 3s.

Manuel V.
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Old Apr 30, 2009, 12:48 AM
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Joined Jan 2009
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Thanks Manuel.

I was going to try 8 turns of 0.6 mm wire (it should be somewhere between 22 and 23 awg) star, but might try 13-14 turns of 0.5 mm wire (almost exactly 24 awg) delta because I already have this wire.
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Old Apr 30, 2009, 09:10 AM
homo ludens modellisticus
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The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
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Winding diagram and number of winds do not affect cogging. Cogging is a magnetic effect, not electrical.
The closer to 1 the #magnetpoles/#statorpoles ratio, the lower the cogging.
Cogging, or the lack of it, says nothing about quality, magnetstrength, power, efficiency, rpm etc. To many parameters affect cogging.

The resistance you feel when shorting the motor wires is not cogging. The motor is acting as a shorted generator.

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
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