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Old Mar 29, 2009, 11:50 AM
Dave North
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Turnigy 2730 Blue'n'red Wonder Rewinds

I think it's probably about time to admit the new "Blue (and red) Wonder" is different enough from the old 2730 "Blue (or silver) Wonder" to start collecting results in a different thread. It's not just that they look different. The stator has changed, with thinner lams and a slightly thicker stack. However, due to bell changes, the weight actually went down (I'm seeing 25-26 grams for packed winds where I used to see 26-27 grams).

As a result, I'm seeing more power and higher efficiency at slightly less weight. It really is a different motor. You might like the new look, or think it's a real barfer, but there's no avoiding the improved performance.


Dave

ps: at Kev's suggestion I'm adding a note to point out that the now venerable Blue'N'Red has been superseded by a Black'N'Red unit that is (in my opinion) slightly inferior. However, the numbers and techniques in this compendious thread are for the most part still relevant. The new one looks better though.
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Old Mar 29, 2009, 11:58 AM
Dave North
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14/13-turn 24 awg Asymmetric

There's also more room in the stator than most of the older Blue Wonders. This makes some winds that were pretty much a strain into "no big deal." This is one I've been wanting to try because I always think if I had a little less power than the 13-turn I might manage slightly better efficiency.

So, yeah:

Tgy 2730 14/13T 24g dLRK Wye
Kv 1347 (16274/12.08v) Io = 0.49 Rm = 0.171

GWS 8040 HD Hex 620 3S
10294 rpm @ 10.55v/7.96a
Badcock: 541 grams 19.1 oz/thrust 83.1% Efficient
Drive Calc: 597 grams 21.0 oz/thrust 85.6% Efficient

GWS 8040 HD Rhino 750 3S
10861 rpm @ 11.39v/8.87a
Badcock: 606 grams 21.4 oz/thrust 81.6% Efficient
Drive Calc: 668 grams 23.6 oz/thrust 83.7% Efficient

I really like those numbers; they're right where I'd hoped. Still, I want to try another variant to see how it works. That's a tight wind, but not the end of the world.


Dave
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Old Mar 29, 2009, 12:05 PM
Dave North
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17-turn 25awg Delta

Another difficult version I've been tempted to try. The 16-turn pushes awfully hard on the 10-amp barrier but gives excellent power and efficiency. I like this a bit better, at least when it comes to going a bit easier on the batteries:

Tgy 2730 17T 25g dLRK Delta
Kv 1875 (14691/7.84v) Io = 0.61 Rm = 0.093
GWS 8040 HD Hex 620 2S
9486 rpm @ 6.86v/9.67a 457 grams 16.1 oz/thrust 81.2% Efficient
Drive Calc: 501 grams 17.7 oz/thrust 84.3% Efficient
GWS 8040 HD Rhino 610 2S
9831 rpm @ 7.23v/10.41a 552 grams 19.5 oz/thrust 19.1% Efficient
Drive Calc: 542 grams 19.1 oz/thrust 83.1% Efficient

Again, pretty much what I'd hoped. This one does require more than average bell clearance, though: that third layer of 25awg is pushing it. However, as usual, manufacturing variance means one such will show up.


Dave
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 11:47 AM
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Dave.

Very good results.
These stators are the same as those of AX2210 and AX2213?

Manuel V.
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 04:20 PM
Dave North
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Manuel, no. They're just like the old Hex 2730 stators except:
1. Thinner laminations (0.2mm)
2. Slightly thicker stator stack
3. Bigger registration bumps

Otherwise, you might just figure them to be old Blue Wonders. The AX221* stators have thicker lams and a slightly larger center hole (I think) for the larger bearing tube. But they wind in a very similar fashion. Since I'm not sure about the center hole, it's certainly possible that the AX motors use the same stator plates as the old Blue Wonder 2730.


Dave
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 04:43 PM
tree scavenger
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Dave
yeesh! Efficiency really bites w/the 2s610 !? lol
is that the correct Rm (0.093) on the 17turn?

i tried to search 'assymetric wind' but it only referred me back here,, searched Manuel too,, maybe i'd seen it on pwrcroc??
any chance you'd share a brief synopsis pls?

...look like DCalc is showing 2 oz. and 2 Effcny points over Rod's in general, that why we're switchin teams mid-game?
still in all so far i kinda like the 13/14 (whatever) that is...
have we/or intend a 'straight' 14t yet?
appreciate the new dedicated thread, i'll be watchin w/interest
ss
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 05:02 PM
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SS, It's asymmetric, not assymetric. I think that's a little of Dave's humor peeking through there.

Dave, nice thread. The old BW thread was a little long in the tooth and I'm glad that you started another one. The new Turnigy's have improved enough that they warrant their own thread anyway.

Manuel, I think you'll be very happy with the new AX Motors when they come back in stock. They're easily the nicest motors I've seen in the $7 price range and would still be a good value at the the same price point as the DT 750.

-Shawn

PS. The new Turnigy 1300 kv Blue Wonder is on Flash sale for $7.26. That's going to be an ABC wind but that might bother some people.
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Last edited by shawn595; Mar 30, 2009 at 07:21 PM. Reason: It's peeking, not peaking!
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 07:13 PM
Dave North
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Actually, it was a typo...

... and I've fixed it. Made my eyes bug out when I saw it! Peek? Or peak? That is the question... Hmm. Nice price on the 1300s; might have to grab a few and spearmint a bit. The ABCs have their place.

No plans just this moment to assault the 14T 24g again. It's a bear. Besides, I kind of like the 14/13 and want to try a very slight variation on it. Though, who knows, maybe I'll see just the right stator to do another 14.

The Rm did measure out at .093. Something look wrong?

An asymmetric dLRK is simply one where the two adjacent teeth in each phase have a different number of turns, in this case 14 then 13. Because they share a transit, this is only slightly different from a typical wind, and because the other active phase will mirror it, the whole thing balances out pretty nicely. Means you can do "half turn" designs very easily.


Dave
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 07:20 PM
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Bah. It's definitely "peeking". Good catch.

14T of 24?!? Wow.. that's impressive!

-Shawn
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 09:04 PM
Dave North
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn595
14T of 24?!? Wow.. that's impressive!
This'll getcha: I made it for the missus. She likes it...


Dave
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Old Mar 31, 2009, 06:15 AM
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She must be proud! What's she flying with it?

-Shawn
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Old Mar 31, 2009, 10:28 AM
Dave North
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An old Slofly 22. Thing's got some crazy moves!


Dave
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Old Apr 01, 2009, 08:00 PM
tree scavenger
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ahh,
Tnx,
gwasshoppa was not familiar w/that technique,

i wanna slap er in the mini-flash first chance, but...
kinda doubt (I) would notice the difference tween this and
(your 13t Hxt) can you? ..or the missus?

the ABC's DO indeed have their place,
..i thi9nk i may be dLRK-ically challenged myself,,
i can just imagine trying asymmetric,,i cant keep count Now hehe

/me wonders what the "slight variation " would be...?
i see little point going more than one turn (differential) over/under ?
..go too far and yer just winding LRK !?
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Old Apr 01, 2009, 11:12 PM
Dave North
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I did this one 14/13; I want to try 13/14. I usually favor "standard" with the hard tooth first, but I want to try delta-style with the easy tooth first. It really shouldn't make any difference, but you never know.


Dave
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Old Apr 16, 2009, 05:27 PM
Dave North
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USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
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How about 11x4.7 GWS RS?

Interesting problem somebody posed. I think this is actually a bit too soft, but you never know when trying to turn big props with little motors. Sometimes when you drop a turn or two you don't get any more rpm, you just get more current sucked.

Anyway, this one produces about 15oz thrust at 7.3 amps 7.4 volts. RPM was 4204. Kind of a nifty look (this is an ABC 16-mag).


Dave
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