HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 10, 2009, 08:59 PM
Registered User
Joined Feb 2007
64 Posts
Dave how efficient are the new ZS motors?
04hepmar is offline Find More Posts by 04hepmar
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 11, 2009, 07:12 AM
Giz
Tony Rogers
Giz's Avatar
Bath, UK
Joined Sep 2003
2,194 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04hepmar
Dave how efficient are the new ZS motors?
Not Dave but they look pretty good to me. Below are a couple of graphs comparing the ZS3020-08 with an AXI 2820/10 and the ZS4020-12 with a Kontronik KoraTOP20-12.

The graphs take measurements from the different manufactirers web sites. They plot rpm as a percentage of voltage x kV against current for a number of different props and voltages. Note that this is NOT efficiency. However, the graphs do give an indication of efficiency and allow direct comparisons between two different motors of similar kV.

Assuming that we will get the same performance indicated by Dave's measurements, the ZS3020 looks considerably better than the AXI 2820 whilst the ZS4020 shows a similar performance to the KoraTOP20 although the Kontronik has a smaller drop-off with increasing current.

Of course, this does require that the kV is stated correctly.
Giz is offline Find More Posts by Giz
Last edited by Giz; Jun 11, 2009 at 07:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2009, 07:17 AM
3DHS Junkie
800mZero's Avatar
Rhode Island
Joined Jun 2005
5,682 Posts
dave when will the 4025 size be available for purchase?
800mZero is offline Find More Posts by 800mZero
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12, 2009, 02:08 AM
Registered User
Peter M's Avatar
Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia
Joined Sep 2007
2,366 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 800mZero
dave when will the 4025 size be available for purchase?
Dave,
While you're at it, when will the ZS65's be available too?

Regards
Peter
Peter M is offline Find More Posts by Peter M
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12, 2009, 02:38 AM
http://www.aircraft-world
NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 800mZero
dave when will the 4025 size be available for purchase?
4025-16 are the newest and just arrived, so should be at dealers this week or next.

All other Zs40 will be back in stock within the next 8~14 days.

Frankly, I'm just totally swamped, and short on staff after a few contracts expired recently. I think I'll need to build a dev center in the USA and move there, as we have trouble keeping tech people (who can speak and write RC in native English) in our small town in Japan, where you need to speak Japanese for decent quality of life...

As such, I have not got the test data out for G3 lipo or new motors yet. Suffice to say for now that the Zs run between about 84% and 93% efficient, and improve on the Z series by 4%~8% depending on motor type, wind, loading point, etc...

No promises on Zs65. Still working on them. We may release a 55mm serries first, but nothing decided for sure yet.

D
NipponDave is offline Find More Posts by NipponDave
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12, 2009, 02:55 AM
//----\\
Coil's Avatar
Slovenia
Joined Mar 2008
676 Posts
I must share my experience with hyperion motors too... I have a SZ3025-8 in 2,2Kg Supra with 6S and currently with AeroCAM 10*6 prop, i am getting like 78% efficiency at 66A, 16900rpm static , climb rate is about 30m/s. It is a great motor, afcourse i have a spinner with a cooling hole, but the motor doesn't get hot at all i`m getting a 11*6 prop and for shore the climb will be a bit better.

I`m very pleased with the motor.
Coil is offline Find More Posts by Coil
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12, 2009, 07:30 AM
FASST flyer
KatManDEW's Avatar
USA, OH, Newark
Joined Sep 2001
3,563 Posts
What was the old motor that was recommended for the Yak 180e, and what is the new motor recommended for the Yak 180e?
KatManDEW is offline Find More Posts by KatManDEW
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2009, 04:14 AM
Registered User
Peter M's Avatar
Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia
Joined Sep 2007
2,366 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatManDEW
What was the old motor that was recommended for the Yak 180e, and what is the new motor recommended for the Yak 180e?
Kat,
A backmount Z5045-18 is the recommended motor. Reading between the lines of various posts I reckon a ZS55?? will eventually be the recommendation once they come out and I guess the existing stock of Z50's will be discounted 20% like the others superseded motors. If you look up the 55 series Scorpions, that I understand will give you the nearest glimpse of the ZS55's you are going to get for a little while anyway!

Yes, I am lurking around waiting for the ZS55's (and 65's particularly!) to appear too. Just hope that money doesn't burn a hole in my pocket in the meantime!

Cheers
Peter
Peter M is offline Find More Posts by Peter M
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2009, 06:46 AM
We want... Information!
Bruce Abbott's Avatar
Hastings, New Zealand
Joined Jan 2001
5,182 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giz
the ZS3020 looks considerably better than the AXI 2820
.
.
Of course, this does require that the kV is stated correctly.
I think the difference is due to Kv specification errors. If you extrapolate the lines to Zero Amps, they should intersect at 100% of Kv. In fact the AXI is about 13% too low, while the Hyperion is a few percent too high. The slope of both lines is similar, which indicates that they may be able to achieve similar efficiencies (peak efficiency depends on no-load current, which cannot be determined from your graph).
Bruce Abbott is offline Find More Posts by Bruce Abbott
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2009, 07:56 AM
Giz
Tony Rogers
Giz's Avatar
Bath, UK
Joined Sep 2003
2,194 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott
I think the difference is due to Kv specification errors. If you extrapolate the lines to Zero Amps, they should intersect at 100% of Kv...
Yes, I think you are right. I did wonder about this and almost put a smiley on my kV comment .

I adjusted the kVs to pass through 100% at zero amps and got the graph below. It makes the ZS3020-08 kV 1150 and the AXI 1040. Hmm...

The new graph indicates the Hyperion is perhaps 5-6% more efficient than the AXI at 30-40 amps.

The same exercise with larger motors shows a similar lead for the Kontronik.

I don't know if this information is worth anything or not? It probably says a lot about different testing methodologies and differing no-load currents. Still, as you say, teh slope should still be significant.
Giz is offline Find More Posts by Giz
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2009, 05:28 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2001
151 Posts
Difference between Hyperion HS4025-0630 and Scorpion HK4025-630?

They appear to have the same specs. and prices. How are they different? For example do they have different quality bearings, other materials and warranty? Which one would you buy?

Thanks.
smau1 is offline Find More Posts by smau1
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2009, 06:06 PM
Registered User
Fourdan's Avatar
Antony (France)
Joined Sep 2003
2,938 Posts
Giz
Ref your post 130

On your graphs efficiency versus amps, we have no indication relatively to voltage, power and rpm.

To compare two motors A and B with close Kv and weight I prefer
1) take a prop, in the good range
2) use a bench with variable regulated V power supply
3) test PowerIn (Vsource & current) versus rpm (all WOT), varying V

Then I can compare for same rpm power In for A and B
(same Power Out)
edit : Voltage adjustment allows to compensate Kv to get exactly the same rpm
Louis
Fourdan is offline Find More Posts by Fourdan
Last edited by Fourdan; Jul 30, 2009 at 02:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2009, 11:47 PM
http://www.aircraft-world
NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourdan
Giz
Ref your post 130

On your graphs efficiency versus amps, we have no indication relatively to voltage, power and rpm.

To compare two motors A and B with close Kv and weight I prefer
1) take a prop, in the good range
2) use a bench with variable regulated V power supply
3) test PowerIn (Vsource & current) versus rpm (all WOT), varying V

Then I can compare for same rpm power In for A and B
(same Power Out)

Louis
Louis's method is the only one I trust, too, just fyi. You either need a good-quality dyno, or a propellor turning at exactly the same rpm. Otherwise too many problems creep in when trying to normalize with different prop rpms...

David
NipponDave is offline Find More Posts by NipponDave
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 2009, 12:10 AM
http://www.aircraft-world
NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by smau1
They appear to have the same specs. and prices. How are they different? For example do they have different quality bearings, other materials and warranty? Which one would you buy?

Thanks.
The Hyperion Zs40 have a different mounting arrangement, optimized for model airplanes via backmount only (which is the only good way to mount motors this size in an airplane). If that is your target, you might choose the Hyperion version. Also our models are specifically made to fit the Zs series, so we feel they are clearly the best choice for those.

The Scorpion would be my choice if I had applications which REQUIRE a front mount and can use that Kv (Heli, boat, etc).

D
NipponDave is offline Find More Posts by NipponDave
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 2009, 09:36 AM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2001
151 Posts
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the answer. It is nice to see your business grow. I ordered from you since you started.

You are saying that if I want to use it on a heli, I have to use Scropion, am I correct?

What's the warranty on Hyperion Hs4025? I couldn't quite find it on your webpage.

Thanks.
smau1 is offline Find More Posts by smau1
Last edited by smau1; Jul 30, 2009 at 05:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale For Sale - New Brushless motors forsale, Hyperion, mega, eflite stealthy Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 8 Dec 31, 2006 08:54 AM
New Hyperion Z30 Series motors from ACW Zimbo Power Systems 104 Aug 21, 2006 01:11 PM
NEW!!! electronicmodel motors and esc !!!! fjhdavid Electric Heli Talk 9 Jan 22, 2002 08:51 AM
New Brushless motors check it out Eco8gator Electric Heli Talk 5 Nov 06, 2001 02:50 AM
Simpro new Brushless motors chrisc Electric Plane Talk 0 Jun 12, 2001 11:36 PM