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Old Feb 27, 2010, 01:24 AM
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Boise, ID
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Wow, thanks to David and everybody. I'll consider all these suggestions. Yep, David, figured you were traveling or tied up with new product intro, or on holiday, or something.

Probably should go with a motor that gives me flexibility, since I can't really say I have such a thing as a flying style yet. Except, I guess I do enjoy looong flight times and enjoy cruising around at half throttle, (scale flight) but want enough zip to get me out of trouble.

Have a question, though. Webocalc suggests that with a plane of these dimensions, flying style, etc., motor kv should be 530-660. If I did that right.

Specs say the Zs4025-14 is 370Kv.

Why the suggestion of a 370Kv motor? Trade-offs? Just curious, for my own knowledge.

Thanks again, guys.

-Tom

Also, will re-think the batts. Will probably depend on how other guys have found the CoG to be. How much weight I'll need up front, etc. Will have to re-read that thread. Although manufacturer of this plane advertised it as originally designed for electric, it wasn't, from what the other experts have written. Was thinnking it would be nice to have a bunch of 3S's so i can also use them in the Apprentice, but, oh well.
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 09:25 AM
The Eh Team
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined Aug 2000
954 Posts
ZS4025-10 w/ 17x8 on 5S?

Has anyone here tried the ZS4025-10 on 5S with a 17x8 prop (such as the XOAR PJE 17A or PJN 17x8)?

I'm looking for a motor combo that will be ideal on my Samson using only a 5S/5000 pack and I don't want to give up entirely on 3D potential (various things I've read imply that you need more cells for 3D but I'm not quite willing to give up the idea of making it 3D-capable on 5S).

So I'm looking for lots of thrust yet still with good flight speeds and trying to stay under 100A for the sake of the pack.

After a lot of playing with motocalc, different motors, and adjusting the params to match Hyperion's published prop tests (and voltages), the ZS4025-10 on 17x8 looks really good -- predicting 1400-1500W in (@18V/3.6V/cell), 85-86% efficient, ~7700rpm, ~220oz of thrust (1.6:1 to 1.7:1 thrust to weight), and 58mph pitch speed (static). By my reckoning this is plenty for either sport flying at low throttle or for 3D. Also the amps are predicted pretty modest, in the 75-85A range (depending on exact prop).

But, I'd like to know if anyone has tried this combo in the real world? Worst fear is that this is actually just too much prop for this motor and that the real world efficiency would be lower.
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 02:50 PM
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I don't know why webocalc wouold suggest Kv that high, unless perhaps 3S had been specified... In any case, if you want to go 5S or 6S, the Zs4025-14 should give a strong setup with a lot of flexibility (as long as you can fit a 15"~16" prop).

D

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlr-boise View Post
Have a question, though. Webocalc suggests that with a plane of these dimensions, flying style, etc., motor kv should be 530-660. If I did that right.

Specs say the Zs4025-14 is 370Kv.

Why the suggestion of a 370Kv motor? Trade-offs? Just curious, for my own knowledge.

-Tom
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 03:30 PM
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United States, TX, Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eajohnson View Post
Has anyone here tried the ZS4025-10 on 5S with a 17x8 prop (such as the XOAR PJE 17A or PJN 17x8)?
I run the ZS4025-10 with a Mejzlik 18x8e, ATLAS 120A and 5s 4200 on my 3DHS 65" Vyper, and used to run it on a 3DHS 68" Velox with ICE100. Gives me 6 minte flights with more than enough power.

I pull close to 100A without problems. Very nice combo, and it will definetly 3D your Samson on 17x8.
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 04:44 PM
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Boise, ID
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NipponDave View Post
I don't know why webocalc would suggest Kv that high, unless perhaps 3S had been specified...

D
Ran Webocalc again. That's exactly the mistake I made. Thanks again. Yes, guys are flying these H&M Corsairs with 15" and 16" props. several different pitches, APC mostly. The 15" for the three-blade props, if I remember right.

One Zs4025-14 and Atlas ESC soon to be on order.
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlr-boise View Post
Ran Webocalc again. That's exactly the mistake I made. Thanks again. Yes, guys are flying these H&M Corsairs with 15" and 16" props. several different pitches, APC mostly. The 15" for the three-blade props, if I remember right.

One Zs4025-14 and Atlas ESC soon to be on order.
Btw (and this is ALL I am going to say), a little birdie tells me you may want to wait till March 8-9, if you plan to purchase some larger G3 lipo...

D
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 04:52 PM
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Here's an email I got from Hyperion Singapore. I wrote back to ask what batt and prop they used.

Mr Chan Tzelaw (FAI Jury) test flew your Zs4025-10 motor on his SebArt Miss Wind 50E.
He is very very impressed!

Video link here :
ChanTzelaw's Sebart Miss Wind (7 min 30 sec)


David

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Norway View Post
I run the ZS4025-10 with a Mejzlik 18x8e, ATLAS 120A and 5s 4200 on my 3DHS 65" Vyper, and used to run it on a 3DHS 68" Velox with ICE100. Gives me 6 minte flights with more than enough power.

I pull close to 100A without problems. Very nice combo, and it will definetly 3D your Samson on 17x8.
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 05:00 PM
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Boise, ID
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Thanks! Will do. Intend to maiden late spring or early summer.
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 08:26 PM
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Joined May 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrandle View Post
Dave, very exciting information, congratulations on the new products they look beautiful.

I am going to be ordering a 4025-16 but was surprised to see this new generation of motors still using collet type adapters when they are capable of swinging 18"props at 2000 watts.

What is the reasoning behind using a collet adapter with a motor this powerful?

Are there good ways to keep the collet attached to the shaft so you don't throw the prop and adapter in snaps or other tumbling maneuvers?

Thanks

Ron
Ron,

If you see any collet prop shaft with the Nut screwing in Counter-Clockwise to tighten the prop, you are in for a bad treat. All outrunners should spin counter-clockwise if you face the nose of the model. Hence when it spins even with the highest torque (counter-clockwise), it will actually "self-tighten" - it will never come loose by itself - provided you have tighten it well in the first place.

cheers!
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 09:23 PM
The Eh Team
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined Aug 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Norway View Post
I run the ZS4025-10 with a Mejzlik 18x8e, ATLAS 120A and 5s 4200 on my 3DHS 65" Vyper, and used to run it on a 3DHS 68" Velox with ICE100. Gives me 6 minte flights with more than enough power.

I pull close to 100A without problems. Very nice combo, and it will definetly 3D your Samson on 17x8.
That's great news, if it will swing the 18x8 then the 17x8 will probably suit the plane quite well and do not too bad for flight times also! Thanks Captain Norway!

Eric
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 09:33 PM
The Eh Team
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined Aug 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NipponDave View Post
Here's an email I got from Hyperion Singapore. I wrote back to ask what batt and prop they used.

One of my sponsored pilot Mr Chan Tzelaw (FAI Jury) test flew your Zs4025-10 motor on his SebArt Miss Wind 50E.
He is very very impressed!

Video link here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF2FPaP1LJs


David
Wow. That was really pulling with authority on the vertical uplines, it looked like gravity had been turned off .
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 09:39 PM
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Perth, Tasmania, Australia
Joined May 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NipponDave View Post
Here's an email I got from Hyperion Singapore. I wrote back to ask what batt and prop they used.

One of my sponsored pilot Mr Chan Tzelaw (FAI Jury) test flew your Zs4025-10 motor on his SebArt Miss Wind 50E.
He is very very impressed!

Video link here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF2FPaP1LJs


David
Very impressive David. Look forward to the full specs you've requested.

George.

BTW - haven't forgotten the tests but I've been away myself. I'll get to them soon.
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 09:59 PM
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Phoenix,Arizona, United States
Joined Jun 2002
4,634 Posts
If collets are so bad, Why do Neu, Lehner, Hacker, Kontronic and Reisenauer use them on setups exceeding 10,000 watts and 30"+ props?
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 10:35 PM
Electric baptism 1975
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Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
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Hacker don't use a collet in their A60 & higher series Threaded shaft.
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 10:59 PM
.................
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Phoenix,Arizona, United States
Joined Jun 2002
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They do on their geared B-series German built competition inrunners.
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