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Old Nov 21, 2009, 10:50 PM
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USA, MI, Grand Ledge
Joined May 2006
127 Posts
Dave, have been following this thread and the new Hyperion items closely. Haved used the Hyperion batts and motors in the past, really liked them. If you would, what motor and battery combo would you suggest for this bird;

http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_gu...cfm?kit_id=132

Have been following the Sampson thread and kind of using that as a baseline, but thought I would ask the expert. Would love to use a 3 or 4 blade prop if possible.

Ready to buy and get it all fitted out this winter. Don't suppose you are having any Black Friday sales
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Old Nov 22, 2009, 02:43 AM
http://www.aircraft-world
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American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Hi there,

Well you ask a pretty difficult question, but with 30 minutes of product hunting and another half hour of calcs... I think I have a low-cost, high-performance, tune-able proposition for you.

First, you're really lucky to have a model that doesn't need a spinner. That means it is a snap to install the VarioProp 4-blade system, and it would look GREAT on the Thunderbolt. We sell VarioProp at Air Craft, but fell out of stock after a few emails to VP went unanswered some time ago. I'm going to try to contact them again this week, but there should be stock available somewhere to order asap, if needed.

The VP system has a "C" series of Pitch-Adjustable 4-blade hubs (8mm center hole), and 13.9" Warbird blades to go with that. They are a bit pricy at first, but once you have the hub the replaceable blades make replacement cost reasonable, and there is no better system in the world for a 4-blade warbird, IMO, as the adjustable pitch allows you to find the perfect balance between amp draw and model speed...

Here is the Hub shown at AIR CRAFT (see 4-blade), and Recommended blades (the 13.9")

For motor, the Z4035-12 on 6S should be just about right, given that you can adjust the blade pitch from about 8" to 14" (4" to 16" for the system, but 8~14 makes sense for your model imo).

After looking at some prop data, I think the Z4035-12 with M8 backmount will be just right on good 6S lipo (would recommend G3 5000mAh CX (25C).

Target is 55A~70A peak, for about 1200W~1600W peak fresh charged (so you have around 150W per lb at peak).

Compared to the prop loading of a 19x10 APC E on 6S with the motor (around 60A~65A peak), and an estimate of loading for the 4-blade varioprop, it looks like pitch will end up in the range of 10~13" with the 13.9" diameter VP blades, which should be just perfect (but this is an educated guess!). Due to the relatively low rpm we will likely see (6000~6500 rpm I think) you'll want a good bit of pitch, 10" minium I think. Overall, the low rpm will be a very good thing, as it will minimize the losses of 4 blades compared to 2..

The Z4035 has just been put on 45% off sale, and you'd need this backmount.

Note that some of the recommendations on AC World for the Z series (like battery) are ancient history...

Cheers,

David

PS: I don't have one in stock to check thread pitch, but this VP spinner nut would be the perfect finishing touch, if it mates with the Z40 backmount, which it most likely does...

PPS: This is a fun project. The only thing that isn't certain is the best Kv version of the motor for the VP blades. If you buy the motor, its mount, and the suggested lipo pack from us, then I'll promise swap you out a 10T or 14T version of the motor, if the 12T won't pull enough (or too much) current at usable pitch settings on the VP.

PPPS: (PS you to death!) Varioprop sellers are listed here, looks like this shop in USA might have stock. And it's nice to see that everybody in the world seems to have used (grabbed, lifted, appropriated) the descriptive text I wrote about VP products years ago...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledgehunter View Post
Dave, have been following this thread and the new Hyperion items closely. Haved used the Hyperion batts and motors in the past, really liked them. If you would, what motor and battery combo would you suggest for this bird;

http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_gu...cfm?kit_id=132

Have been following the Sampson thread and kind of using that as a baseline, but thought I would ask the expert. Would love to use a 3 or 4 blade prop if possible.

Ready to buy and get it all fitted out this winter. Don't suppose you are having any Black Friday sales
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Old Nov 22, 2009, 03:58 AM
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grizzlymatt's Avatar
Perth, Western Australia
Joined Aug 2004
806 Posts
Anyone got any idea if the X mount on the new Hyperion motors match that of the hackers. Looking to try the Hyperion ZS3025 -10 on a 3DHS 51" Slick.Any though comments. they recommend a Hacker A30-12XL. Would prefer if i could just bolt the motor straight onto the predrilled firewall which is drilled as per the Hacker A30 X mount

Matt
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Old Nov 22, 2009, 04:37 AM
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American in Japan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzlymatt View Post
Anyone got any idea if the X mount on the new Hyperion motors match that of the hackers. Looking to try the Hyperion ZS3025 -10 on a 3DHS 51" Slick.Any though comments. they recommend a Hacker A30-12XL. Would prefer if i could just bolt the motor straight onto the predrilled firewall which is drilled as per the Hacker A30 X mount

Matt
The pattern to firewall is identical, I believe... (actually, pattern to the Zs30 motor should be identical, too, I think. 2x 25mm centers, M3 for A30 and Zs30)

D
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Old Nov 22, 2009, 08:46 AM
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WOW !! Thanks Dave, I didn;t mean for such a large project for you ! You got a deal, as soon as I decipher all the info you provided!
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Old Nov 22, 2009, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ledgehunter View Post
WOW !! Thanks Dave, I didn;t mean for such a large project for you ! You got a deal, as soon as I decipher all the info you provided!
A little time consuming, is all. But a fun project, so I'm happy to work on it.

If you aren't in a huge rush, and if I can get response and order shipped out from VP soon, then I would be happy to try the Z4035 motor on the bench here. That way I can check rpm, and do some calcs to make sure you have the combibnation of thrust and pitch speed needed to fly the model well.

4-Blade setups can be really tricky, so that might be best. I would guess than around Jan 20th is the soonest we could get to it, given my travel schedule and the wait for VP stuff.

Pls email me at supply2[atMark]aircraftjapan.com to discuss.


D


PS: IN an earlier post abouut the Sebart Miss Wind, I wrote: In my view, it is not the best choice to backmount any motor swinging a large prop, especially as the motor size gets larger. I would guess that the Sebart mount is strong enough, but do be sure to balance prop and spinner, and check the mount under full thottle before flight to see if it is flexing much.

The red word should have been FRONT MOUNT! Front mounting large motors and props often causes a a wicked sprialling vibration as the mount plate is caught between the two rotational forces...
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 03:36 AM
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Joined May 2009
43 Posts
Atlas SB90

I am setting up a Atlas SB90 esc in a model with a ZS3025-10 motor. I'm using HD-2216MG digital servos (cheap Chinese). The problem is the these servos are very gittery when conected to the bec. I tried a JR digital which was a lot better with just a slight hum. Both these servos aren't gittery if used with a standard nicad battery. I also cann't seem to get the infra red programmer to work. Any ideas Dave.

Thanks
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 12:32 PM
Trail Starts/Ends Here...
Joined Aug 2006
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Greatly appreciate the CORRECTION...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NipponDave View Post
PS: IN an earlier post abouut the Sebart Miss Wind, I wrote: In my view, it is not the best choice to backmount any motor swinging a large prop, especially as the motor size gets larger. I would guess that the Sebart mount is strong enough, but do be sure to balance prop and spinner, and check the mount under full thottle before flight to see if it is flexing much.

The red word should have been FRONT MOUNT! Front mounting large motors and props often causes a a wicked sprialling vibration as the mount plate is caught between the two rotational forces...
Thank you so very much for posting the correction.

You are one class act!

MMM
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 10:45 PM
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I really can't say much, as I have no experience with the servos. The ATLAS don't have any problem noise in general, and we have had no trouble with Atlas ESC and any good servos, except some Align digital, and that is because those servos are not designed with normal capacitance on input (maybe yours are similar in that respect). The problem with the Align is something that can happen with a variety of ESC types we tested, so we know it is a servo issue rather than ESC.

If the servos are programmable, you might try increasing DeadBand a bit to see if they calm down.

Anyway, is it that they are noisy, or that the control surfaces are moving off center significantly? Have you tried moving your transmitter further away from the model?

David



Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrocarbon View Post
I am setting up a Atlas SB90 esc in a model with a ZS3025-10 motor. I'm using HD-2216MG digital servos (cheap Chinese). The problem is the these servos are very gittery when conected to the bec. I tried a JR digital which was a lot better with just a slight hum. Both these servos aren't gittery if used with a standard nicad battery. I also cann't seem to get the infra red programmer to work. Any ideas Dave.

Thanks
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Old Nov 24, 2009, 12:33 AM
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Thanks Dave. The control surfaces visually move off centre by a few millimeters. Moving the Tx away from the model makes no difference. With two HD servos pluged into the receiver adding an extra JR digital servo to the receiver reduces the jitter on the two HD servos, a second JR servo further reduces the jitter and a third completely eliminates the jitter. So with two HD servos and 3 JR full size digitals there is no jitter. With 4 HD servos only they all jitter. Seems like the problem is with the servos.

Thanks
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Old Nov 24, 2009, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrocarbon View Post
With two HD servos pluged into the receiver adding an extra JR digital servo to the receiver reduces the jitter on the two HD servos, a second JR servo further reduces the jitter and a third completely eliminates the jitter.
Thanks
Yep, that is totally a capacitance problem with the cheaper servos. By adding in the JR servos, each one increases the capacitance in the circuit, and dampens the whole system...

D
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Old Nov 24, 2009, 11:26 PM
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Australia, VIC, Vermont
Joined Nov 2006
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Hey Dave
Are you going to be doing any prop data testing on the HS4035-0400
motor ?
What sort of prop size would it handle at its volt limit ?

cheers

Pete.
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Old Nov 25, 2009, 08:54 AM
200 mph club
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United States, AZ, Fort Mohave
Joined Mar 2005
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Hi Dave,

I am thinking about a HP-GS3032-4 for a Enigma F5B plane from soaring usa. What do you think?
When will the HP-GS3032-4 be available? Can I pre-order one?

Thanks,
Mark
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Old Nov 26, 2009, 07:22 PM
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Hi Dave,
Are you still around?
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 01:56 PM
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Zapopan, Jalisco
Joined Mar 2008
41 Posts
have gear but no plane

Hi Guys:

I've following the thread and so far it was very educating for me, I had only one electric plane and so far has been so good. I had an EF extra 300 with 58" and the motor and ESC of the plane is waiting for a new frame.

I was wondering if I can make it with the miss wind using the:

torque 4016- 500 KV 80 amp eliteboss ESC and flightpower 5S 3700. I assume and have check some number that I will be drowning to much watts for the motor and will get hot with an airplane around 7 pounds.

I was using a 15x8 in the extra and the motor was very happy.

Any advice of using the equipment listed for the miss wind 50?

thanks guys,
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