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Old Mar 26, 2009, 06:23 AM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackosmeister
That bipe is gorgeous! Well done. The majority of my esc's are hyperions and scorpions - Good to see theyve had offsprings! Will the Atlas esc's have the same trick IR programming remote the scorpion V2's use? Or will it retain the USB plug in device?

On another note - Ive seen pictures of meaty looking scorpion inrunners, will these be part of the hyperion range?

The LHS guy who flies with me was hinting at 50C continuous discharge hyperion lipos being developed to replace the current offerings - Is he pulling my leg or is that serious???
Hi,

The ATLAS will have the IR programmer in the box, like Scorpion. The Emeter II can also program both brands.

Yes, we're looking forward to the inrunners. I have an F16 and Schubler 120mm fan in build now for my prototype motors...

New G3 CX (25C/45C) and VX (35C/65C) lipo will be shipping to distributors next week. The ratings are continuous and 10-second. But in most cases ESc, wiring and connectors would be overstressed if you were to pull those peak currents, even for 10 seconds...So be careful. Main points of the new packs are greatly increased lifespan at equal C rates, very high delivered voltage with nearly flat discharge curves (i.e. power doesn't change much during discharge), the packs are very well matched in production - and stay well matched, and they can be charged at 5C rate.

David
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 06:39 AM
Electric Hippy
Brisbane
Joined Nov 2005
2,361 Posts
Good to see that Hyperion hasnt been sleeping. I have nearly all of their high end chargers, a few motors and planes and have been very happy with them all.

I lost my harddrive that had a pitts samson pic that I had on desktop. I am definately getting the hyperion one and putting it on my new desktop.

Awesome!
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Last edited by Eagleburger; Mar 26, 2009 at 06:48 AM. Reason: Ah I wont worry ppl already know scorpion motors are better than neu anyway
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 06:50 AM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleburger
I lost my harddrive that had a pitts samson pic that I had on desktop. I am definately getting the hyperion one and putting it on my new desktop.

Awesome!
RC Groups compresses pics really bad. Here are links to 800 and 1200 pixel-wide Samson box labels in original "pretty" versions:

800
1200

And if you like motorcycles and hyperion products, you might like this one.
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 10:12 AM
ProgressiveRC
write2dgray's Avatar
Seattle, WA
Joined Dec 2006
1,997 Posts
Very nice Dave. Thanks for dropping in to enlighten all. Looking forward to the new offerings.

It'll be interesting to see how the ESCs really match up to the Kontroniks and Jetis of the world. It'd be nice to have a more economical alternative. In the past Scorpion ESCs have always been a bit disappointing to me (large, hot running, relatively poor governor), IMO, YMMV, etc.

- David
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 02:50 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
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The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
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David, to get/make things clear, how much development was spent on these motors in Japan? Or was it mainly testing?
Were Ralph and 'his team' involved in the Scorpion/Hyperion development as far as you know?
Who did the stator lamination designs? Hyperion, Scorpion, German team?

Vriendelijke groepen Ron
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 07:13 PM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron van Sommeren
David, to get/make things clear, how much development was spent on these motors in Japan? Or was it mainly testing?
Were Ralph and 'his team' involved in the Scorpion/Hyperion development as far as you know?
Who did the stator lamination designs? Hyperion, Scorpion, German team?

Vriendelijke groepen Ron
Ralph and team were instrumental in the very important stator designs for the new motors. Beyond that, I'm not going to discuss the development process. Suffice to say that everyone involved has spent considerable time and energy on producing motors that have the best of design, materials, QC, and performance.

David
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 07:18 PM
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American in Japan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by write2dgray
Very nice Dave. Thanks for dropping in to enlighten all. Looking forward to the new offerings.

It'll be interesting to see how the ESCs really match up to the Kontroniks and Jetis of the world. It'd be nice to have a more economical alternative. In the past Scorpion ESCs have always been a bit disappointing to me (large, hot running, relatively poor governor), IMO, YMMV, etc.

- David
You'll be very happy by the differences you find, then. In fact, the new ESC were supposed to be done nearly a year ago. But the target was making the #1 ESC, and it took many, many revisions of both hardware and firmware to get there. We couldn't be more pleased with the end result. In particular, you will find the governor to be an eye-opener. We'll post some logs next month to show what I mean (flat as a board during tic-tocs!)


David
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 07:57 PM
ProgressiveRC
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Seattle, WA
Joined Dec 2006
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I'll be keen to see these in action - if it holds like my Jazz (typically +/- 50 RPMs, always +/- 100) and has a nice smooth start-up I'll pick one up for my next heli build.

- David
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 08:04 PM
All electric, all the time!
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USA, WA, Bellevue
Joined Aug 2005
1,430 Posts
So David, just to be clear, the Hyperion version will have a bolt on type adapter as opposed to the current Scorpions that only use a collet type prop adapter. Is that correct?

Oh and that's a real motor cycle, not RC right? Very nice.
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 08:30 PM
ProgressiveRC
write2dgray's Avatar
Seattle, WA
Joined Dec 2006
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Yes, more on motorcycle too please! Is that somebody's personal Ducati converted to electric using a Hyperion motor - and...let me guess, A123 cells? The conversion looks factory from the given angle.
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 10:21 PM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietRCFly
So David, just to be clear, the Hyperion version will have a bolt on type adapter as opposed to the current Scorpions that only use a collet type prop adapter. Is that correct?

Oh and that's a real motor cycle, not RC right? Very nice.
[later edit: I see what you mean now. Yes, ZS30 are basically the same setup as the S30 were, and use a bolt-on prop adapter for backmount, as described below]

They come with a front collet adapter, blind nuts, screws, and the crosspiece which can be used when either backmounting or front mounting depending on the model firewall and spacing needs.

To fit the ZS to models originally spec'd for Z motor (or any backmount setup), you'll need the "S30-BKMNT" set, which also has aluminum spacers of the proper length so spinner gap is correct.

D
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Old Mar 26, 2009, 10:23 PM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by write2dgray
Yes, more on motorcycle too please! Is that somebody's personal Ducati converted to electric using a Hyperion motor - and...let me guess, A123 cells? The conversion looks factory from the given angle.
Nope, still got the 160Hp Ducati engine inside... Bikes are my "first hobby", as I started when I was 10 with a Honda 50. I'll start doing track day practice soon on the Ducati, and hope to do a little racing later (old farts class).

The part that looks like a motor is probably the Red anodized slipper clutch I installed. Other than that, sticky track tires, and stripping off street stuff like mirror and lights, it's stock.

Anyway, the bike is pretty OT, so we'd better not discuss it here...

D
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Old Mar 27, 2009, 06:29 PM
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Sid3ways's Avatar
Swanton, OH
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NipponDave
the packs are very well matched in production - and stay well matched, and they can be charged at 5C rate.

David
David,

What are your guys opinions on the 5C charge rate? Most manufacturers are going to claim that the longevity of the battery will take a hit when charging at these high rates. What exactly changes with these new cells to allow the crazy charge rates that won't hurt lifespan?
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Old Mar 27, 2009, 09:10 PM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid3ways
David,

What are your guys opinions on the 5C charge rate? Most manufacturers are going to claim that the longevity of the battery will take a hit when charging at these high rates. What exactly changes with these new cells to allow the crazy charge rates that won't hurt lifespan?
We did 100 charges on each cell size and couldn't see a significant difference in retained capacity or delivered voltage under load compared to 2C charge rate for any of them. The new batts are quite different internally than anything we've done before, and use a "hybrid" rolled-stacked (RS) technique which contributes greatly to the much improved lifespan. The batteries also use very fine particle size (sometimes referred to as "nano", but that's a bit of a marketing stretch) which our engineers say also contributes greatly to the overall improvement in performance and durability.

Frankly, I personally consider 3C~4C as more than enough. The extra minute or two savings at 5C don't mean much to me. But whatever you prefer from 1C to 5C should be absolutely fine for the new Generation 3 Series Hyperion batteries.

For longevity (any lipo) and faster charge times, I'd suggest setting TCS (charged capacity) to 90%~95%. That drops the terminal voltage a bit, which insures the longest life from your batteries. Also, be sure to use STORE Mode if your batteries will sit for more than a day or two. And we recommend using Hyperion NET/DUO chargers, because they can do both the above, and are very accurate in terminal voltage. (and can charge at up to 5C, and have the WATT power to do it for many pack sizes and configurations).

D
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Old Mar 31, 2009, 10:27 AM
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United States, TX, Houston
Joined Oct 2007
2,221 Posts
Dave,

Can you confirm if there will be a bolt on prop-adaptor solution for a backmounted ZS40 motor as well? The pictures I have seen do not show any option for this. I hope to use ZS40 with 7s for 70" planes.

I see that you have a new Titan 80A controller with 6V BEC. Will this be availlable for smaller ESCs and the ATLAS ESCs as well? I would very much like to see a 50A 6V ESC for smaller planes.

Any chance there will be an ESC with built in BEC for 7s operation? I have ordered the new 7S 5500 35C to use as 14s in a 100CC and 170CC convertion, and I also plan on using these packs for 70" planes on 7s.

One last question: Will the 0720NET be able to do 2C on the 7s 5500 packs, or just barely? I plan to have 6 x 0720NET chargers to charge a 14s 16500 flightpack and was wondering what my chargetime would be.

Erling
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