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Old Sep 10, 2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace308
thanks man, but im running a 12g mg digi rudder and elevator servos, probably 1/2 an oz in empennage reinforcements, some yellow tape for visibility and the battery mod, cog should be fine. itll be my 3rd build of a pz p51bl...6th if you count gluing back together

other than the possibility of something happening, is there something that will probably happen, that is bad, if i push the shaft through? is this motor NOT designed to have the shaft altered?

thanks guys, both of you.
The total thrust of the motor is passing through and being retained by the collar, so this is a single point of failure,
if it does fail then there is nothing stopping the shaft, magnet bell, and propeller from parting company with the airframe........Hasta la vista Baby

Thatís why I use two collars on my setup, the second one being loctited in place.
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 12:11 AM
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Dylwad's Avatar
Phoenix,Arizona, United States
Joined Jun 2002
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IMO 2 collars is overkill, and the fear of a failure of that type when backmounted is kind of a stretch. The factory setup will be fine, loctite the grub screw on the collar, file a flat if there isnt one already and get it plenty tight and it would probably hold with 100+ lbs of thrust.

Theres a chance of bending the endbell when pushing the shaft through, plus as far as I know the ZS motors are dynamically balanced, and moving the shaft might alter the balance. Pushing the shaft through still requires the use of a collar too.

Just my 2 cents. Dave knows what he is talking about, I would trust his advice.
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylwad
IMO 2 collars is overkill, and the fear of a failure of that type when backmounted is kind of a stretch. The factory setup will be fine, loctite the grub screw on the collar, file a flat if there isnt one already and get it plenty tight and it would probably hold with 100+ lbs of thrust.

Theres a chance of bending the endbell when pushing the shaft through, plus as far as I know the ZS motors are dynamically balanced, and moving the shaft might alter the balance. Pushing the shaft through still requires the use of a collar too.

Just my 2 cents. Dave knows what he is talking about, I would trust his advice.

Please elaborate on this, would love to hear the logic behind it as I am ignorant.
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 12:30 AM
wormburner
Minneapolis
Joined May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaRendezvous
Please elaborate on this, would love to hear the logic behind it as I am ignorant.
if youre ignorant, what does that make me?

i kinda hope the engineers would have figured that some knuckleheads will push the shaft and design the motor to accommodate all of the planets rc flyers, some smatr, some not so sharp. (yes, i know)
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace308
if youre ignorant, what does that make me?

i kinda hope the engineers would have figured that some knuckleheads will push the shaft and design the motor to accommodate all of the planets rc flyers, some smatr, some not so sharp. (yes, i know)

lol Iím just saying Iím not the sharpest tool in the shed and will make no assumption about you Chris, though I do have a couple of files, but alas they would have no impact on a hardened steel shaftÖ


Just had to say shaft one more time, now I'm really grossed out.


Sorry Iíll shut up now.
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaRendezvous
The total thrust of the motor is passing through and being retained by the collar, so this is a single point of failure,
if it does fail then there is nothing stopping the shaft, magnet bell, and propeller from parting company with the airframe........Hasta la vista Baby

Thatís why I use two collars on my setup, the second one being loctited in place.
We have tested hundreds of Zs30 class motors over the past 10 years. Never, ever had one pull the shaft out when backmounted EVEN when the collar was forgotten and only the circlip was there.

This is a case of over-concern imo, based on 10 years of customer support for thousands of users and our own numerous experiences.

Just put the collar on, tighten it (a little loctite can't hurt) and fly happy.

D
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 01:34 AM
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...nothing to see here.
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 01:57 AM
wormburner
Minneapolis
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well, im a moron. turns out ive been ordering from another guy named dave, whos located in states. the pages look similar enough that at 0200 in the morning, a guy, a simple minded guy, can get confused. just got an order in to nipdave for parts going on the new bf-109g, when i get it.

sometimes i wonder how ive made it all these years... :/

edit: HP-ZS3020-08
Hyperion ZS 3020 8-Turn 1135Kv
70A 1050 Watts

im going to rip the wings off
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 02:08 AM
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whacha get for the 109
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 03:02 AM
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Phoenix,Arizona, United States
Joined Jun 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaRendezvous
Please elaborate on this, would love to hear the logic behind it as I am ignorant.

Its been my experiance with machining my own motors and automotive work that there is a possibility of screwing up very minute tolerances when you alter the position of a shaft after the assembly was balanced with the shaft in its original position. 99% of the time its probably not a big deal on these motors, but there is a chance of screwing things up. Not everyone has the correct tools and fixtures to guarantee a perfectly aligned press every time when moving the shaft.


As far as if the motors are actually balanced or not, I assume they are since the ZS motors are being manufactured by Scorpion brushless to Hyperions specs, and the current offerings from Scorpion are factory balanced, Dave would have to confirm this though.

The way I see it, nothings broken to begin with, so nothing needs fixing
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 03:35 AM
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Well yeah if you donít press the shaft through correctly then damage will result in an imbalance, but how does repositioning the shaft affect the balance if done properly, thatís the point I wanted you to clarify. You seemed to suggest in your original post that just changing the position itself might throw the balance off.

Not trying to be a smart arse or anything, I just couldn't follow what you were getting at.

Mike.
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Old Sep 11, 2009, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace308
well, im a moron. turns out ive been ordering from another guy named dave, whos located in states. the pages look similar enough that at 0200 in the morning, a guy, a simple minded guy, can get confused. just got an order in to nipdave for parts going on the new bf-109g, when i get it.

sometimes i wonder how ive made it all these years... :/

edit: HP-ZS3020-08
Hyperion ZS 3020 8-Turn 1135Kv
70A 1050 Watts

im going to rip the wings off

Just saw your edit Chris someone feels the need for speed you must have already bought some 9x9s while we've been chatting today, the postman finally delivered my 4S lipo, if I put this in my mustang I just might fry my scorpion

EDIT: Dave guess who's now claiming 5C charge rates on their new cells...

.
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Old Sep 12, 2009, 06:39 PM
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What is the best way to measure motor temp of an outrunner?
I have the Eagle Tree and just bought the temp prope and temp loop sensors.

The Loop can go around the non moving part of the outrunner, but is that really measuring temperature accurately?
I have the probe which can peer into the back of the brushless and touch the stationary copper wires if that would give a better reading, but I dont know if that is such a good idea to do while the motor is operating???
Thanks
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Old Sep 12, 2009, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintski
What is the best way to measure motor temp of an outrunner?
I have the Eagle Tree and just bought the temp prope and temp loop sensors.

The Loop can go around the non moving part of the outrunner, but is that really measuring temperature accurately?
I have the probe which can peer into the back of the brushless and touch the stationary copper wires if that would give a better reading, but I dont know if that is such a good idea to do while the motor is operating???
Thanks

I glued the loop around the armature support with clear nail varnish, which can be easily removed with acetone. I tried just looping it around, but it really needs to be held in contact, to get accurate and consistent readings. The probes are cheap enough so I use one for each motor I own.

Mike.
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Old Sep 14, 2009, 11:02 PM
wormburner
Minneapolis
Joined May 2009
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shaft pushed through with no prob. i actually pulled the shaft out and flipped it so the locking collar had a flat spot to grab. whether that screwed everything up beyondf repair, well, we shall see. these things are pretty motors and the packagin is first rate.

my power 10 was running 4 more amps on my current setup. stock corsair prop, 40A pro, tenergy 2200.
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