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Old Aug 29, 2009, 05:24 PM
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Antony (France)
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Hi Jackosmeister
My idea was to make a separate Hyperion Calc
Louis
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Old Aug 29, 2009, 08:51 PM
JustFlying
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Joined Dec 2005
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I also offered help my help but there is absolute silence.

BTW, I had a look at some of the motor prop data charts on web site and the same as on the Hyperion data charts, I do not think it is correct. There is some serious mistakes in both Hyperion and Scorpion data charts. For one I compared is the Scorpion S-4035-380 - (I did check others as well.)
http://www.scorpionsystem.com/files/...data_chart.htm
It show that on 35V with a 13x8 prop the current is 75.8A for 2653 watt. Then it is only about 49% efficient. On the calculators I use it should be more like 50A - 53A for about 1850 watt.

Somebody made a big mistake, or is it that this motors are really not that good?
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Old Aug 29, 2009, 11:01 PM
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GeorgeC's Avatar
Perth, Tasmania, Australia
Joined May 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebell
I also offered help my help but there is absolute silence.

BTW, I had a look at some of the motor prop data charts on web site and the same as on the Hyperion data charts, I do not think it is correct. There is some serious mistakes in both Hyperion and Scorpion data charts. For one I compared is the Scorpion S-4035-380 - (I did check others as well.)
http://www.scorpionsystem.com/files/...data_chart.htm
It show that on 35V with a 13x8 prop the current is 75.8A for 2653 watt. Then it is only about 49% efficient. On the calculators I use it should be more like 50A - 53A for about 1850 watt.

Somebody made a big mistake, or is it that this motors are really not that good?
Nippon Dave has already pointed out some possibility of errors with the ZS data. I understand from Brian at AC World that they are carrying out retesting now. I think it is important that the new data is published quickly.

George
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Old Aug 30, 2009, 12:47 AM
JustFlying
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Joined Dec 2005
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Yes it is very important to get the new data released. In the meantime the "wrong" data should be removed from the web-sites as a matter of urgency. Some regular feedback on this thread would help as well, silence leave uncertainty.

My question is: Did they use the same test data for both the websites or is it really what the motors test like? Since both sites have the same "non efficient tests" on it, I would like to be certain any "new test" is honest before I buy. I am in the market for some of the 40xx motors, that is why I looked in the first place, but I will not buy it if I am not sure what is what. There are other brands that test very well.
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Old Aug 30, 2009, 01:10 AM
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Perth, Tasmania, Australia
Joined May 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebell
Yes it is very important to get the new data released. In the meantime the "wrong" data should be removed from the web-sites as a matter of urgency. Some regular feedback on this thread would help as well, silence leave uncertainty.

My question is: Did they use the same test data for both the websites or is it really what the motors test like? Since both sites have the same "non efficient tests" on it, I would like to be certain any "new test" is honest before I buy. I am in the market for some of the 40xx motors, that is why I looked in the first place, but I will not buy it if I am not sure what is what. There are other brands that test very well.
Good point Rebell. I agree if the data is wrong or even doubtful, then it should be removed. I bought a ZS4020-12 as discusses earlier and I don't want to use or test it because if the online data is wrong I expect to be able to replace it with a motor that meets my requirements.

I hope Dave follows this up quickly.

George
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Old Aug 30, 2009, 06:03 AM
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Fourdan's Avatar
Antony (France)
Joined Sep 2003
3,022 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebell
I also offered help my help but there is absolute silence.

BTW, I had a look at some of the motor prop data charts on web site and the same as on the Hyperion data charts, I do not think it is correct. There is some serious mistakes in both Hyperion and Scorpion data charts. For one I compared is the Scorpion S-4035-380 - (I did check others as well.)
http://www.scorpionsystem.com/files/...data_chart.htm
It show that on 35V with a 13x8 prop the current is 75.8A for 2653 watt. Then it is only about 49% efficient. On the calculators I use it should be more like 50A - 53A for about 1850 watt.

Somebody made a big mistake, or is it that this motors are really not that good?
Hi
I have tested one sample of S4035-380
I found exactly 380 rpm/V with my ESC and my timing
I provided Scorpion Calc with my measured data
Results:
At 35V on APC 13x8E current is 50A
Louis
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 09:40 AM
Registered User
Fort Wayne, IN
Joined Sep 2006
30 Posts
Anyone know when the Hs series will be available?

Specifically, I'm looking to buy:

HP-HS3026-1600
and
HP-HS4025-1100

Can't seem to find them in stock anywhere...I'm guessing they're not actually out yet...
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 02:46 PM
AMA 754
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Phoenix area
Joined Apr 2004
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The HS motors are now in stock at Hyperion, we'll have them in our next shipment, probably by the end of this week... www.allerc.com
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 02:48 PM
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United States, TX, Houston
Joined Oct 2007
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Anyone know if there is a 50CC replacement planned with a kV that can handle 14s?
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 09:59 PM
c/f
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Joined Jan 2004
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Something that makes the Hyperion far superior IMHO over Scorpion in my world is that I am able to add an additional bearing in a motor mount X brace and use a prop shaft adapter to the end bell. Scorpion as I've read have no plans to move towards a bell mounted prop shaft adapter.

The added bearing in a motor mount that is 10mm or more away from motor backplate on the motor shaft makes a rock solid zero flex bell. Scorpions without this are knocking magnets loose as they flex and hit stators.

Heres some extreme Outlaw setups we have now been running for 4 months. 90 deg F outside temps with 90% humidity. Batteries temps can exceed 140 deg F and motor temps never beyond 125 deg F

HP Zs 3025-6 Graupner 9X5 , 6s, 110amps, 2277watts.
HP Zs 3020-8 Graupner G-Sonic 9X8 6s, 102 amps 2110 watts.

Folks that near 3 HP........ in 4lb airframes


3D setup in an Extreme Flight eYAK54

HP Zs 3009-20 Graupner e CAM 12X4, 4s, 43amps, 593watts.

45oz flying weight with 99oz thrust....... AMAZING flight envelope....


RC Combat SSC

HP Zs 3014-12 Master Airscrew, 8X3ssc 6s, 16 amps, 331 watts
turns prop to 20K and with a HELI ESC governor mode set to legal 17.5K allows for
2, 5 minute rounds of combat on a single charged 2500MAH battery setup.

All setups use the additional motor mounted bearing on shaft in X mount, smooth running and powerfull setups. The Hyperion lineup is my golden nugget find and it stemmed from Dave's input on RCG powerplants commenting on max watts as eroneous and in the right setup factory pilots are running twice the stated watts.
BINGO I took that to the bank and never looked back, The power to weight ratio of the Hyperion lineup has no equal in the +300 watts. Then the price, unbelievable for such quality engineering and components.

.02
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 10:21 PM
ProgressiveRC
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Seattle, WA
Joined Dec 2006
1,997 Posts
Rock on - for big props that looks like the way to go. Thanks for the detailed write-up, it looks like you are having all the fun . And point taken on the third bearing support - something that I could see being important at >2kW.

For folks like myself looking for a heli motor, the Hyperion HP-HS-2221-3595 looks identical to the Scorpion HK-2221-8 V@ - are you aware of any differences between these two motors?

- David
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 10:42 PM
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San Gabriel Valley, CA
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c/f

HP Zs 3025-6 Graupner 9X5 , 6s, 110amps, 2277watts.
HP Zs 3020-8 Graupner G-Sonic 9X8 6s, 102 amps 2110 watts.

Folks that near 3 HP........ in 4lb airframes
Would you mind to post some rpm reading, just to estimate efficiency?
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Old Sep 01, 2009, 12:04 AM
JustFlying
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Joined Dec 2005
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c/f, Please post some pictures of the X mount bearing set-up. Wil it work on the 40xx motors as well?
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Old Sep 01, 2009, 04:19 AM
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Purf, AUSTRALIA
Joined Jan 2008
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I have a Zs3025-08 and have just received an RPM sensor for my eagle tree.
About to run some tests, but need to know how many POLES to set it up?
So anyone know how many poles does this motor have? I found that the older Z uses 12stator and 14magnet poles, but hwat about the Zs?
And, if in this case, which number would I use? 12 or 14?
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Old Sep 01, 2009, 07:18 AM
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Purf, AUSTRALIA
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I think I worked it out - 14poles.

Here are my results if anyone cares.
There is a big difference to the official numbers.

With the 12 and 13 inch props I did a run with 2P (3S4400) run, and then a single battery run (3S2200)
The batteries are Zippy Flightmax 25C with only 5 cycles and are my best batteries at the moment.
I recharged in between props, represented by gaps in the timeline.

The WOT Tests I did are in the following order;
1: 12x6APC-e with 3S4400
2: 12x6APC-e with 3S2200
3: 13x6.5 APC-e on 3S4400
4: 13x6.5 APC-e on 3S2200
5: 14x7 APC-e on 3S4400
6: 14x7 XOAR on 3S4400


I'm running this motor on 3S4400 (2P) in a 40sized EXTRA with the 14x7XOAR and it's performance is EXCELLENT.
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Last edited by clintski; Sep 01, 2009 at 11:02 AM. Reason: added word: WOT
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