HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 12, 2009, 11:17 AM
http://www.aircraft-world
NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlr-boise
Update: Called All e RC, ordered the back mount kit and a couple props, as suggested. Should arrive tomorrow or next day, and will install and go flying.

Fukuoka: Not sure, but I think I've been there, to visit a Sumitomo facility or maybe it was a sintering plant. Can't quite remember. I remember flying from Tokyo airport up to a city on the Sea of Japan, and we flew in during a storm and very high winds. Final approach was over the water, and lots of white caps, roiling sea, scary.
Sounds like Fukuoka... The Sea of Japan is like a bathtub when the wind blows. I was in a 27' boat a while back in 13' (4M) swells. THAT was scary...

Let us know how it goes, please. Start with the 10x5 to test on the bench and maybe the first flights at least, to avoid overstressing the mount.

D
NipponDave is offline Find More Posts by NipponDave
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 12, 2009, 11:38 AM
Registered User
Boise, ID
Joined Dec 2008
1,102 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NipponDave
Sounds like Fukuoka... The Sea of Japan is like a bathtub when the wind blows. I was in a 27' boat a while back in 13' (4M) swells. THAT was scary...

Let us know how it goes, please. Start with the 10x5 to test on the bench and maybe the first flights at least, to avoid overstressing the mount.

D
Thanks. Will do. Don't have much of a "bench" yet, but will test this motor/prop/mount combination before flying. I haven't built Rich Smith's $3 wattmeter yet (next thread today, in this forum), but I can run it, check for warmth of ESC (Atlas 60 amp) and batteries, and time the run, and check battery usage. I can figure out if it works basically, I believe, and see if the motor mount needs beeffing up somehow.
tlr-boise is offline Find More Posts by tlr-boise
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 12, 2009, 05:26 PM
c/f
Registered User
Joined Jan 2004
3,312 Posts
I have access to all kinds of shafting materials, even case hardened 70 rockwell 3mm which I use in my combat models, but I can assure you getting a prop shaft out of a 30mm Hyperion endbell will be a costly mistake if not done properly and with a possible special machined support disk, it is a SUPER press fit.

In two years of developing high speed electric models in excess of 150MPH the prop on the shaft will never come close to a prop on an endbell prop adapter and the shaft supported in an additional bearing within the mount configuration.

The new curve magnets and close tolerances to minimize flex is awesome, you can't even get any bell flex in my setups and I point that out to Pro Scorpion users which are flimsy on their 30mm lineup........

IMO if Scorpion does not start to offer end bell prop adapter mounting the gap is going to start widening.........
c/f is offline Find More Posts by c/f
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 14, 2009, 04:15 PM
The Eh Team
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined Aug 2000
951 Posts
Any word on when the ZS65xx motors are likely to appear for retail sale?
eajohnson is offline Find More Posts by eajohnson
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2009, 02:50 PM
JustFlying
rebell's Avatar
Joined Dec 2005
2,413 Posts
I used the prop data of the 4025-14 to compare with the Axi 4130-16 as they are almost the same Kv and weight. The performance of the Axi I used to compare is the actual figures I measured myself. The Axi is a much older design and mine is running for more than 4 years including the time previous owner used it. One can never expect two different but similar motors to perform exactly the same, but good comparisons can be made.

I am using both Axi and Hyperion for 5 years now and I am pleased with both. I also have Scorpion, Hacker, E-Flite, EMax and some cheap but good other motors as well. I really appreciate a good and efficient motor. However, I can not see what makes the Zs superior to the older Axi, unless the given prop dat of the Zs is not accurate. On 7s and a 15x8 prop the Zs 4025-14 deliver about the same rpm as the Axi 4130-16 with a APC 15x8 E as tested by myself with older generation batteries, but the Axi does the job by consuming much less current than the Zs. Unless the data of the Zs is incorrect, the Axi is more efficient than the Zs.
rebell is offline Find More Posts by rebell
Last edited by rebell; Aug 15, 2009 at 03:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2009, 03:48 PM
http://www.aircraft-world
NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebell
On 7s and a 15x8 prop the Zs 4025-14 deliver about the same rpm as the Axi 4130-16 with a APC 15x8 E as tested by myself with older generation batteries, but the Axi does the job by consuming much less current than the Zs. Unless the data of the Zs is incorrect, the Axi is more efficient than the Zs.
You need to spin the two motors at the same rpm and the same prop (vary voltage) and compare watts. A casual glance at rpm won't tell you anything, as the power needed to turn a prop just a few percent faster is much more than you might think. (power and rpm are not linear, but square)

What rpm, voltage and current are you seeing with the axi?

D
NipponDave is offline Find More Posts by NipponDave
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2009, 06:42 PM
Registered User
Boise, ID
Joined Dec 2008
1,102 Posts
Dave or anyone who's an experienced modeler:

Regarding the back mount kit for the Zs3020-10, for my Apprentice:

1. Comes with 11 screws. Eight black, three "silver". I'm assuming the eight black hex-head screws (in two lengths) are for mounting the motor, with varying thicknesses of spacers, and the three silver/aluminum/stainless flat-blade screws are for mounting the alum. prop adaptor to the new front-side of the motor. It seems to me it pretty much has to be that way, but the three screws don't seem quite beefy enough, although they fit just fine. Is that all correct? And, do you recommend Locktite on those three screws?

2. Motor spins counter-clockwise when back-mounted, right? Which means it will be clockwise when front-mounted? Prop pretty much goes that way, so, again, just checking to confirm.

3. Finally, the Du-Bro black plastic/nylon 1.5" spinner I bought, which mimics the look of the Apprentice spinner, appears to need the prop openings on either side enlarged. The APC 10 x 5 prop blades are a little wider than those prop openings. I assume I take an Exacto knife or Dremel and enlarge the openings? Anyone have to do that before? And, then, I've read, must then balance spinner back plate with the front screwed on, as well as the prop itself.

Anyone have any advice about all this?
tlr-boise is offline Find More Posts by tlr-boise
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2009, 11:32 PM
.................
Dylwad's Avatar
Phoenix,Arizona, United States
Joined Jun 2002
4,634 Posts
1. Your right, Loctite yes, use the blue medium strength. Dont "farmer tighten" the screws, but make sure they are plenty snug, and try to get all of them the same torque, just like lugnuts on a car.

2. Doesnt matter which direction the motor spins, as long as its spinning the prop the right way. If it spins backwards swap any 2 of the wires going to the motor to reverse it.

3. Pretty normal to have to enlarge prop openings in spinners, make sure the spinner doesnt touch the prop at all when your done, but dont go overboard trimming it. I usually leave a 1/16" gap around the prop blades. Balancing is ALWAYS a good idea, no matter what is spinning, or how fast.
Dylwad is offline Find More Posts by Dylwad
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 2009, 01:57 AM
JustFlying
rebell's Avatar
Joined Dec 2005
2,413 Posts
Quote:
You need to spin the two motors at the same rpm and the same prop (vary voltage) and compare watts. A casual glance at rpm won't tell you anything, as the power needed to turn a prop just a few percent faster is much more than you might think. (power and rpm are not linear, but square)

What rpm, voltage and current are you seeing with the axi?
With a 7s 4500mAh battery on the Axi 4130-16 it was spinning the APC 15x8E prop at 8350rpm (give or take a few as the tach resolution is 50rpm). The voltage is then 25.42V and current is 47.3A. The test was done at 650m asl. The Axi is now in a plane with a 10s 5100mAh battery spinning a 12x10APC prop at over 11700 rpm and consume 51A @ 35V.
rebell is offline Find More Posts by rebell
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 2009, 03:09 PM
http://www.aircraft-world
NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebell
With a 7s 4500mAh battery on the Axi 4130-16 it was spinning the APC 15x8E prop at 8350rpm (give or take a few as the tach resolution is 50rpm). The voltage is then 25.42V and current is 47.3A. The test was done at 650m asl. The Axi is now in a plane with a 10s 5100mAh battery spinning a 12x10APC prop at over 11700 rpm and consume 51A @ 35V.
Is that voltage measured, or calculated from 7S?

d
NipponDave is offline Find More Posts by NipponDave
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 2009, 03:11 PM
http://www.aircraft-world
NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylwad
3. Pretty normal to have to enlarge prop openings in spinners, make sure the spinner doesnt touch the prop at all when your done,....
If you don't want to enlarge spinner openings, check out the Hyperion Standard and Aerobatic Scale spinners. We made them specifically to fit a wide range of E props appropriate for each spinner size.

D
NipponDave is offline Find More Posts by NipponDave
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 2009, 03:16 PM
JustFlying
rebell's Avatar
Joined Dec 2005
2,413 Posts
It is measured with a Xtrema charger/Watt meter. The battery pack was Loongmax 2x3s 2250 plus 2x4s 2250 conected to make a 7s 4500mAh pack.
rebell is offline Find More Posts by rebell
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2009, 08:01 PM
Registered User
GeorgeC's Avatar
Perth, Tasmania, Australia
Joined May 2000
354 Posts
Just bought a ZS4020-12 for an ESM Adrenaline 68" (.90ic) and will be used for Sportsman Pattern events. Also purchased 5S 5000mAh G3. I checked out the specs http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/zs/ZS40propdata.pdf and the chart says 1532W using a 15X8 and 5S (older generation?). BTW I put the data into ECalc and can't get anywhere near 1500W. Is the Hyperion quoted watts at the prop? I realize ECalc is not "Real life" but expect something in the ball park.
The model will weigh around 9lbs and some sceptics are saying the motor is too small. Has anyone had any experience with this motor / battery combination and can advise if I should be looking at a bigger motor?

Thanks in advance,
George
GeorgeC is offline Find More Posts by GeorgeC
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2009, 01:47 AM
JustFlying
rebell's Avatar
Joined Dec 2005
2,413 Posts
I don't think all the prop test data for the Zs 40xx motors are correct, I did not compare the other size Zs motor data. According to motor and prop calculators, the power consumption by a 15x8 prop at 8220 r.p.m. should be in the order of 860 - 870 watt. If the H Zs 4020-12 motor consumes 1532watt, it then runs at 56% efficiency (not good). Comparing to other motors in the same weight and Kv category, it should run at more like 76% - 78% efficiency. Then the power-in should be around 1110 watt. What is the figure you calculated? For a 9 pound plane the 1110watt will give you 123 watt/pound. It is good for a general sport / aerobatic plane, but not enough for 3D.
rebell is offline Find More Posts by rebell
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2009, 02:19 AM
Registered User
GeorgeC's Avatar
Perth, Tasmania, Australia
Joined May 2000
354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebell
I don't think all the prop test data for the Zs 40xx motors are correct,
I hope you are wrong Rebel - I am sure, like I did, people rely on that data as a guide to making their purchase. I hope Dave chimes in and gives his view. I've been buying from Dave for about 7 years and have always relied on what advice he has given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebell
Then the power-in should be around 1110 watt. What is the figure you calculated?
Electricalc says 1121W in

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebell
For a 9 pound plane the 1110watt will give you 123 watt/pound. It is good for a general sport / aerobatic plane, but not enough for 3D.
Nowhere near enough for what I need so I hope NipponDave can clarify where the data comes from as I don't want to install this motor if the Aircraft World data is so wrong.

Thanks for your reply Rebell. Hopefully Dave will be able to rely soon ......

Thanks,
George
GeorgeC is offline Find More Posts by GeorgeC
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale For Sale - New Brushless motors forsale, Hyperion, mega, eflite stealthy Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 8 Dec 31, 2006 08:54 AM
New Hyperion Z30 Series motors from ACW Zimbo Power Systems 104 Aug 21, 2006 01:11 PM
NEW!!! electronicmodel motors and esc !!!! fjhdavid Electric Heli Talk 9 Jan 22, 2002 08:51 AM
New Brushless motors check it out Eco8gator Electric Heli Talk 5 Nov 06, 2001 02:50 AM
Simpro new Brushless motors chrisc Electric Plane Talk 0 Jun 12, 2001 11:36 PM