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Old Aug 04, 2009, 12:23 PM
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NipponDave's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaRendezvous
Dave, any news on the ZS backmount motor shafts you mentioned in the other thread? and what's happening with the Atlas ESC?

Mike.
Sorry, been too busy to do anything about the shafts. Will try to get on that soon, as I'm getting near to wrapping up a lot of new releases.

ATLAS ESC should be at dealers now ar in the next few days.

Thanks!

D
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NipponDave
I've been in the hobby 29 years, in the RC business 9, and have fielded many thousands of tech reports. Have never seen an single problem with a collet adapter even at well over 4000 watts, as long as the adapter itself is properly made and prop properly tightened.

Frankly, I don't know where this "collets are scary" vibe is coming from recently...

D
Hey, Dave, thanks so much for the reply and I didn't mean to imply anything negative. I've already ordered my new ZS 4025 so I'm not really afraid of the collets

However, I have had two instances where my collet and prop adapter were thrown from the motor. And these two instances were with a Hacker A-40 and Torque 4014 motor so I believe the adapters were of a decent quality.

My question was really aimed at determining why a motor that can only be mounted in one direction, would use a collet, rather than an integrated prop mount. It seems that an integrated mount would eliminate one variable on these bigger motors.

Anyway, not a problem for me as I've already ordered the motor, just curious.

Thanks again

Ron
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 12:48 PM
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Fig Jam's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrandle
It seems that an integrated mount would eliminate one variable on these bigger motors.

Ron
Integrated mounting has it's problems too, Bell distortion due to hard 3D maneuvers can lead to thrown magnets when the bond breaks.

Mike
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 12:49 PM
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Point taken, Mike.
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrandle
My question was really aimed at determining why a motor that can only be mounted in one direction, would use a collet, rather than an integrated prop mount.
Ron
Ron,

I have wondered the same thing from time to time. Some of the larger Scorpion and Hacker motors have a built in threaded prop shaft and prop washer. This would be the best of both worlds, as long as the threading doesn't become the weak point. There were many early engines that had machined bolts fail at the start of the threads along the shank. They were machining the threads and causing a stress point where they started near the head. They started rolling the threads into the metal and those stresses went away. (Thanks "How It's Made". ) That being said, I can't remember having problems with collets not holding onto the shaft. I usually have problems getting them off the shaft after a while. Thanks Hyperion for the Collet Pullers.

Mike
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 11:51 PM
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So are the replacement shafts going to be as flimsy as the original? Again I'd like to point out I went down flat in tall weeds. No damage to APC prop or aluminum adaptor. The shaft was non-magnetic, I doubt it's titanium or a nickel alloy like Inconel or Waspaloy. So I assume it's areally soft grade of 300 stainless. My Scorpion had close to a thousand flights on it and never hurt the shaft. My Hyperion bent on the second flight.
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Old Aug 05, 2009, 01:58 AM
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Same here, on my ZS-2213, I had a slight nose over on landing. With no throttle applied it still bent the shaft a little.
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Old Aug 07, 2009, 08:41 PM
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Disappointed with Hyperion Zs3020-10

I just bought a Hyperion ZS3020-10 with Atlas 60 Amp ESC, from Bob at All e RC, and they're going back, unless someone can advise me how I'm wrong about it.

I bought the motor and ESC to replace a E-flite Power 25 in my Apprentice. (And 40 amp ESC).

Flying the stock 11 x 8 prop.

I'm a new flyer, and I'm re-building from a crash. Thought I'd give the Hyperion a try.

The shaft comes out the back, and I need it to come out the front.

What now?
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlr-boise
I just bought a Hyperion ZS3020-10 with Atlas 60 Amp ESC, from Bob at All e RC, and they're going back, unless someone can advise me how I'm wrong about it.

I bought the motor and ESC to replace a E-flite Power 25 in my Apprentice. (And 40 amp ESC).

Flying the stock 11 x 8 prop.

I'm a new flyer, and I'm re-building from a crash. Thought I'd give the Hyperion a try.

The shaft comes out the back, and I need it to come out the front.

What now?
Looks like you need one of these http://www.aircraft-world.com/shopexd.asp?id=5057 I dont see it at Allerc, maybe an e-mail to them would help. Otherwise Dave will take care of you at aircraft-world.
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 01:09 PM
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Thanks Dylwad.

Yep, I sent All e RC an email, but it's after hours, so won't know until Monday probably. I can't find the diam of that shaft, however, and the Apprentice prop takes 5 mm. Don't know if the threading will work, either. I'm not going to order something else until I'm sure it will work. I'm pretty disappointed, in that I was assured it was the right motor, and was looking forward to flying with a more powerful motor this weekend, but of course, it doesn't work at all with the Apprentice.
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 01:44 PM
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The backmount I posted is a 6mm shaft from what I can tell. Also, I would recomend using an 11x8 APC E prop http://www.allerc.com/product_info.p...roducts_id=519 instead of the stock prop, its cheaper and most likely will work better.
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 01:59 PM
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Thanks Dylwad,

Why would that 11 x 8 prop work better than the stock 11 x 8 prop?

Also, I'm new to RC, so this may be a dumb question, but why would Hyperion put a 5mm shaft on a motor, but then for a back mounting kit for that motor, put a 6 mm shaft on that?

As far as I know, I need a 5 mm shaft, and a 6 mm shaft won't do.

Unless I'm missing something, which is definitely possible.
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 08:30 PM
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Yes, to backmount you'll need the adapter linked in post above. All-E should have them, or one can be shipped from aircraft-world.com for $2.50.

M6 is the right size, and APC E props have an adapter ring to match. No problem there... (if your stock motor has a 5mm shaft, it prob uses a collet prop adapter. that adapter will be M6, just like the Zs30 backmount)

You can't just assume that the "stock" prop for one motor will be right with another. ZS3020-10 on good, fresh 3S lipo typically uses 10x7 to 11x7 props. With a 60A ESC the 11x7 should be fine, and you'll get terrific performance. But I'd start with a 10x7 and see how you like it. If the Lipo are really good, 10x7 will be pretty powerful, and you'll get longer flights and more cycles on the pack.

It would be a mistake to return the motor. You won't find one that performs better. Your choice...

David

PS: Scorpion S2 and Hyperion Zs motors use the same shaft material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlr-boise
I just bought a Hyperion ZS3020-10 with Atlas 60 Amp ESC, from Bob at All e RC, and they're going back, unless someone can advise me how I'm wrong about it.

I bought the motor and ESC to replace a E-flite Power 25 in my Apprentice. (And 40 amp ESC).

Flying the stock 11 x 8 prop.

I'm a new flyer, and I'm re-building from a crash. Thought I'd give the Hyperion a try.

The shaft comes out the back, and I need it to come out the front.

What now?
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Last edited by NipponDave; Aug 08, 2009 at 08:58 PM.
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fig Jam
Integrated mounting has it's problems too, Bell distortion due to hard 3D maneuvers can lead to thrown magnets when the bond breaks.

Mike
And threads can strip, and you're stuck with one diameter, and the length isnt adjustable, and in a crash the shaft may bend, where a collet may take some of the force off the shaft, etc...
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 09:06 PM
c/f
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Ditto, on Hyperions ROCK............

I run the new Zs3020-8 in my Outlaw ARF from Extreme flight. I run 6s and a Graupner G-force 9X8 prop, it is 102a, 2100watts, 20K+rpms static. The motor is less than 120 deg F, and the batteries get up in the 140+ deg F.

My flying buddy has exhausted getting a Scorpion to hold together and equal my Hyperion setup in an Outlaw. A Big online brushless motor guru has written off Scorpions as a Bust given this experiment as well. The beauty of the Hyperion design IS the prop shaft adapter for the end bell, Thus the reported "SOFT" shaft is in the rear and can be properly supported in an X motor PLUS an additional bearing Xmount and it is ROCK solid.


I just flew AMA RCCombat NATS in SSC class, I ran Hyperion Zs3014-12 it turns the spec 8X3 prop @ 20K rpms, 6s. Using a 40 Exceed in governor mode I was rock solid locked in on tach readings of the legal limit 17.5K rpms. Nitros could'nt even come close to this using the slimmmer .15 Using the additional bearing X mount I had full throttle dirt naps and multiple mid airs. I built 2 models and used one for 8 rounds and the second for 2 total ten rounds of combat action, and sold them onsite afterwards with no damage motors what so ever. a few battle scars on the airframe however.


I just rigged the Zs3009-20 in an Extreme Flight Profile Eyak, WOW, plane came out 39oz RTF and the motor is running a Graupner CAM prop 12X4 on 4s 43a. Awesome speed and power envelope.

I cant wait to hook up with Chris H. to fly it, He told me that the Hyperions were manufactured in the same plant as TORQ/Hacker motors. Confirm/deny???

When you put the additional X mount with a bearing on the shaft in rear, and the bell mount prop shaft there is nothing out there that can touch a Hyperion in every spec..... bare none.........
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