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Old Mar 22, 2003, 11:52 AM
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Anti-war demonstrators "shocked back to reality" by trip to Iraq

Excerpt from a UPI story...

A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."

Full story... http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...1-023627-5923r

Jim
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 12:32 PM
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Just read that story Jim....

And was in the process of e-mailing the link to my friends. Quite something, isn't it? Here's another good one... http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...919627,00.html

I think that when these people are finally liberated, and able to speak freely, you'll be reading many more stories like these two. And I don't know how it made you feel...but I tell you what, it made me feel pretty damn good! I'm proud as hell to be an American right now......
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 12:40 PM
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I'd like to hear what the anti-war demonstrators say when they hear the real stories from the Iraqi people. Or should we just drop everything and go home and let this continue?
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 12:44 PM
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Re: Just read that story Jim....

Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Parisot
And was in the process of e-mailing the link to my friends. Quite something, isn't it? Here's another good one... http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...919627,00.html

I think that when these people are finally liberated, and able to speak freely, you'll be reading many more stories like these two. And I don't know how it made you feel...but I tell you what, it made me feel pretty damn good! I'm proud as hell to be an American right now......
Robert, Robert, Robert. I guess you don't read the postings of the truly enlightened here on RCGroups. The United States is evil, we are only doing this for oil and our imperialism.

I, too, am proud of what we are doing over there, and as more and more of the truth comes out, we'll have to listen to less and less of these people spouting off about how terrible America is.

God bless our troops. Go get 'em!

Matt
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 12:45 PM
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Something else to chew on

I lost the link to this but I received this through an email:

Subject: London Daily Mirror - 9/11/2002
No matter what your views on President Bush's statement of upcoming war,
this, from an English journalist, is very interesting. Just for background,
for those of you not familiar with the UK's Daily Mirror, it is a
notoriously left-wing daily that is normally not supportive of us "Colonials
" across the Atlantic. It is very well written.

************************************************** ***

London Daily Mirror Tony Parsons September 11, 2002 One year ago, the world
witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- the mass murder of thousands,
live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race,
September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's Mountain of Skulls in Cambodia, or
the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps. An
unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely
the world could agree on one thing - nobody deserves this fate. Surely there
could be consensus: The victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly
evil. But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as
America's comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the
last year. There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this
country; too loud, too rich, too full of themselves, and so much happier
than Europeans but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me.
More than that, it turns my stomach. America is this country's greatest
friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language
and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans
died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And
exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children - not just
Americans, but from dozens of countries, were butchered by a small group of
religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them? What touched the heart
about those who died in the Twin Towers and on the planes, was that we
recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's
daughter, husbands, wives, and children, some unborn. And these people
brought it on themselves? Their nation is to blame for their meticulously
planned slaughter? These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut
job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan.
The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame
the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering
from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it
likes without having to ask permission. The truth is that America has
behaved with enormous restraint since September 11. Remember, remember -
Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say,
"I love you," before they were burned alive. Remember those people leaping
to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers. Remember the hundreds
of firemen buried alive. Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little
girl who was on one of the planes with her mum. Remember, remember - And
realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 and anything like the way
it could have. So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked without a trial in Camp
X-ray? Pass the Kleenex... So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up
after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American
planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti. AMERICA
could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it
didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised
against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in the
Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of
9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass
murder of 9/11 was an abomination? When the news of 9/11 broke on the West
Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America
watched all of that - and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars
that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it
incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism."
A real war. The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of
hell," if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of
hell like you wouldn't believe. The US is the most militarily powerful
nation that ever strode the face of the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan
may have been less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be
misconceived. But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to
these wretched countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East,
or in the Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand -
assuming you haven't had any chopped off for minor shoplifting. They should
love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle. But
I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above all,
America is hated because it is what every country wants to be - rich, free,
strong, open, optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some
caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we should
start remembering that. Or do you really think the USA is the root of all
evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their
death from the burning towers. Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands
died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing
skyscraper. And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands
worked for the New York Fire Department. To our shame, George Bush gets a
worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we were told that Saddam gassed the
Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are
told he likes Quality Street Candies. Save me the orange center, Oh Mighty
One! Remember, remember, September 11 - One of the greatest atrocities in
human history was committed against America. No, do more than remember.
Never forget.
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 12:57 PM
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United States, OR, Corvallis
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Re: Just read that story Jim....

Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Parisot
I don't know how it made you feel...
It felt good. It confirms my trust in our leaders when I see their predictions borne out.

It's about time these poor people got their freedom, too. We really did a great evil to them by pulling out when we did after the first Gulf War. Saddam treated the dissenters and defectors brutally. I cannot imagine the despair these people have been living in.

Jim
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 01:28 PM
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Bonney Lake, WA
Joined Jan 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sal C
I'd like to hear what the anti-war demonstrators say when they hear the real stories from the Iraqi people. Or should we just drop everything and go home and let this continue?
Oh Sal, you can't possibly think that the Iraqi people know better about their lives than our esteemed protesters?
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 03:57 PM
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I would be the last one to stand in the way of the people of Iraq. Youalll seem to forget George the first talking them into rebellion and then abandoning them and even giving Saddaam the OK to fly gunships to cut them down. how did that make you feel?
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 04:34 PM
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And so perhaps the US gov. has learned from that mistake.

of course at that time we also were "good guys" by following the UN mandate to the letter

of course that time the protestors cried "no blood for oil" just as loud

what was your point ?

P.S. Detroit has the largest Iraqi population outside of Iraq - the polls/ radio shows show almost universal support for bodily removing Saddam by force - they know talk will not bring freedom, and they are too weak to do it themselves - as the last war showed.
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 04:44 PM
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You also all seem to forget that this war is not about humanitarian issues it's about weapons of mass destruction.

Whilst liberating the people of Iraq is certainly a worthwhile side effect it is not the reason for this invasion. Whilst there's no doubt that Saddam has badly mistreated his people it is probably no worse than what's happening in Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Tibet or North Korea (to name but a few). As usual, we'll have to wait for the real facts to emerge.

This raising of the humanitarian issue may just be an attempt to deflect attention away from the real issue which is that so far there has been no evidence of these WMD's Iraq is supposed to have.
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 05:12 PM
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Dave, considering it's only been arround 48hrs since the land campaign launched, I'm not supprised that we haven't found any WMD's yet (the 101st and SOCOM has only now started to firmly secure airfields H2 and H3 where WMD's are likely to be stored).
We HAVE seen though that Saddam STILL had SCUDs. The very weapons that he said they distroyed back in 1992! at least 2 of the Patriot kills in Kuwait have been confirmed to be SCUDs.
Come on, the guy has had 12 years to comply and adhere to the international communitys wishes. I'm glad the US has finally done what should have been done a long time ago!
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by knight of Ni
at least 2 of the Patriot kills in Kuwait have been confirmed to be SCUDs.
The Pentagon briefing this afternoon confirmed that so far no SCUD missiles have been fired in this war.
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveSawers
You also all seem to forget that this war is not about humanitarian issues it's about weapons of mass destruction.

Whilst liberating the people of Iraq is certainly a worthwhile side effect it is not the reason for this invasion. Whilst there's no doubt that Saddam has badly mistreated his people it is probably no worse than what's happening in Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Tibet or North Korea (to name but a few). As usual, we'll have to wait for the real facts to emerge.

This raising of the humanitarian issue may just be an attempt to deflect attention away from the real issue which is that so far there has been no evidence of these WMD's Iraq is supposed to have.
Considering how many people as Saddam and his sons have killed and how many crimes they have perpetrated against their own people and neighbors, Saddam and company are weapons of mass destruction.
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 11:05 PM
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If not a single WMD is ever found it will still have been worth the cost for the world to be rid of a cancer such as Saddam. But the jury is still out. I do believe the troops over there have few other more pressing priorities at the moment.
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 11:54 PM
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The problem is that some people wouldn't be convinced if they watched Saddam throw their own Mother in a plastic shredder.
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