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Old Apr 08, 2009, 07:24 PM
115 inches of 'hog
ScaleBrad's Avatar
United States, FL, Orlando
Joined Aug 2004
2,700 Posts
I found another good CL-415 video..

http://archives.cbc.ca/science_techn...pics/849-4933/

And some more good hi res pictures:

http://www.oognok.ca/415/photos/gallery.shtml
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Old Apr 08, 2009, 09:18 PM
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marnochs's Avatar
Canyon Country, California
Joined Dec 2006
96 Posts
Hi Brad,

Looking good with the scale details


Flight Report
Takeoff: ˝ flaps (15% down elevator mix in)
I found it worked out best ( and looked scale ) if I eased into the takeoff run and held the throttle at about half until the plane was airborne off the water then punch it for climb out. Otherwise the props slap the water spray coming off the nose, You can see this happening on the wingtip video. Not a big deal but I want to keep the paint on the blade tips for as long as possible. This made for a nice flat rise off the water.
Rudder become effective at about 5-10mph

Level flight:
I was at about 60-70% throttle for this with my motor/batteryPropeller setup. Ailerons and elevator are really effective at the recommended throws. I dialed in about 30% expo on both to soften it up. Seamed to fly a little on the fast side, but it is what it is. Every now and again I would loose orientation on the plane, usually on the downwind to base leg of the flight track, so be prepared.
Rudder is really effective –
I have about 15% aileron-rudder mix and 20% aileron differential.

Landing:
Those two propeller are very nice brakes, finally started making my approaches at about 40% power. Didn’t quite get dialed in on the effectiveness of full flaps yet.
The elevator gets really mushy at slow speed, I got a bit to slow a couple of times on landing and found my flare was not there ( but the splash was ).

MotorCalc seems to be about right for flight characteristics, Level flight @ 34mph, Stall @ 24mph. Might be trying 12 x 8 3b props, MotorCalc indicates they'll be a little more efficient at cruse and a better climb rate than the 12 x 6's 3b I'm currently using
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Old Apr 11, 2009, 11:45 PM
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United States, WA, Sumner
Joined Oct 2000
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Anyone fancy an aluminum model of the 415?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3D200%26um%3D1
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Old Apr 11, 2009, 11:57 PM
Thanos Papantonopoulos
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Edessa, Greece
Joined May 2007
439 Posts
MRaerodesign (2,10 wing span) is almost 8kgr and Bernard Dumas CL-215 (2,30 wingspan) is almost 9kgr. What speed you need to develop to keep on air a plane that has 170gr/dm2 wing load?
It's beautiful metal skinned but what happens if you damage it?
You have to order in Spain a spare part?
How long will this take?
How much?
It's not wood or composite to be easy to repaired by your self!!
Anyway it looks fine and if they produced it in 3m wingspan with the same weight and price i would go for it!!!
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Old Apr 12, 2009, 02:36 AM
Thanos Papantonopoulos
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Edessa, Greece
Joined May 2007
439 Posts
This model
http://site.voila.fr/ydconcept/photosCL215Serie3.htm
weights 33kgr foul (20lt of water!!!!!)
and 13kgr empty!!!!
Thats more like it!!
4m wingspan!!!!!!!
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Old Apr 12, 2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy69
This model
http://site.voila.fr/ydconcept/photosCL215Serie3.htm
weights 33kgr foul (20lt of water!!!!!)
and 13kgr empty!!!!
Thats more like it!!
4m wingspan!!!!!!!
That's incredible!

Thanks for sharing Pappy.

Perry
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Old Apr 12, 2009, 01:26 PM
Thanos Papantonopoulos
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Edessa, Greece
Joined May 2007
439 Posts
If i am not mistaken those Spanish guys build not long time ago Bernard Dumas
CL-215.

http://bernard.dumas.chez-alice.fr/

They got the experience and they just modified the engine pylons to 415 and added winglets and finlets. If you observe the landing gear it's almost identical. (landing gear plans included in the plans that Bernard Dumas shares in his site)
They borrowed some characteristics of the Mraerodesign and some from Dumas and builded this nice aluminum plane!! It's a shame that it is so heavy!!
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Old Apr 12, 2009, 01:59 PM
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USA, CA, Aptos
Joined Jul 2005
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14kg is not excessive for a model of that size, just a little more than we're used to. Plenty of scale models have flown successfully at those kind of wing loadings with far less forgiving airfoils and planforms.

If it's damaged, you fix it, you just have to learn how. Somebody who has worked all his life with metal structures would be equally as bewildered trying to repair a composite model.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy69
MRaerodesign (2,10 wing span) is almost 8kgr and Bernard Dumas CL-215 (2,30 wingspan) is almost 9kgr. What speed you need to develop to keep on air a plane that has 170gr/dm2 wing load?
It's beautiful metal skinned but what happens if you damage it?
You have to order in Spain a spare part?
How long will this take?
How much?
It's not wood or composite to be easy to repaired by your self!!
Anyway it looks fine and if they produced it in 3m wingspan with the same weight and price i would go for it!!!
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Old Apr 12, 2009, 03:14 PM
Thanos Papantonopoulos
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Edessa, Greece
Joined May 2007
439 Posts
Working with metal is not enough when you don't have plans.
Wood or composite cracks and brakes! metal bends and distorts!!
The first one you repair it in hours. The second one if finally you get through all the problems such as plans equipment for metal shop etc ect it takes maybe days.
The first one you got the plans. The second one you just buy it!!!
Concerning your comment about wing load!!
I'd rather fly a plane with 2,15 wingspan max 9 kgr then a brick of 14kgr +water!!!! His stall speed should be on the 3/5 of the stick.
Anyway i agree that many scale planes might have flown heavy with less forgiving airfoils and planforms but you know.... when i go on the weekend to have some good time i dont want to carry in my pocket pills for a heart attack caused by a flying brick that flew like a fighter and dived in the deepest point of the lake together with my 3500$.
The only good think is that if you manage to get a snorkel you can dive and get it back. You dry it, change the servos and receiver if they weren't waterproofed and go fly again!!!
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Old Apr 12, 2009, 03:44 PM
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USA, CA, Aptos
Joined Jul 2005
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Repairing a bent and cracked metal structure is absolutely no more difficult than fixing a delaminated and torn composite structure. In many cases, easier.

What you would rather fly is why noone is forcing you to buy that model, you have complete choice to have your fun some other way.

Watching the video, it doesn't look too horrible on wheels.
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Old Apr 13, 2009, 01:06 AM
Thanos Papantonopoulos
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Edessa, Greece
Joined May 2007
439 Posts
Maybe you misunderstood my comments!!
The plane is nice and remarkable job!!
As i said i would buy it if it was 3,5m wingspan for the same weight!!
My comments are from the side of the customer and not the constructor.

By the way.... pheasant are you working in any Air Force's Shied Metal work Shop?? Although that the wood-composite planes that you build (i read all the articles on your blog!!!!!!-REMARKABLE JOB!!) you seem to be very comfortable with the idea of metal working!!!
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Old Apr 13, 2009, 05:06 AM
Horned one
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Vigo, Spain
Joined Sep 2004
759 Posts
Gents,

I have seen the alu 415 in the flesh and thought you might like to see a few "real world" pictures. Here's a link to one of my galleries where it is featured along with its Wilga sister:

http://zero-zero.smugmug.com/gallery...86375459_WsRHr

I will reserve my opinion about the whole deal.
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Old Apr 13, 2009, 10:42 AM
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USA, CA, Aptos
Joined Jul 2005
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Hey Pappy,

I don't think I misunderstood, just wanted to say that a metal airplane is not beyond being repaired, any more or less so than a wood or composite airframe.

I don't work for the military, but do have a fair amount of time working on metal aircraft structures. Would love to build a large all metal model one day, maybe something like an RV-8 or Blanik.

Thanks for the nice words!

P.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy69
Maybe you misunderstood my comments!!
The plane is nice and remarkable job!!
As i said i would buy it if it was 3,5m wingspan for the same weight!!
My comments are from the side of the customer and not the constructor.

By the way.... pheasant are you working in any Air Force's Shied Metal work Shop?? Although that the wood-composite planes that you build (i read all the articles on your blog!!!!!!-REMARKABLE JOB!!) you seem to be very comfortable with the idea of metal working!!!
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Old Apr 13, 2009, 11:24 AM
Thanos Papantonopoulos
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Edessa, Greece
Joined May 2007
439 Posts
Count me in!!!!
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Old Apr 13, 2009, 12:58 PM
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United States, WA, Sumner
Joined Oct 2000
2,774 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zero-zero
Gents,

I have seen the alu 415 in the flesh and thought you might like to see a few "real world" pictures. Here's a link to one of my galleries where it is featured along with its Wilga sister:

http://zero-zero.smugmug.com/gallery...86375459_WsRHr

I will reserve my opinion about the whole deal.
Not to get off topic but that Wilga is GORGEOUS!
Thanks zero-zero.

Now back to the CL-415 build!

Perry
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