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Old Sep 04, 2009, 01:19 PM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Dear Mr. Gareau,

The Samson 2 is the product of 18 months of development by 4 Hyperion developers and test pilots. We are extremely proud of the results, and feel that the Samson 2 does indeed represent a new high mark in high-performance ARF biplanes.

The points about the manual - which is intended for more experienced and accomplished ARF builders - are well taken and will be corrected. We are also currently working on a pictorial+text addendum manual to help those who need additional pointers.

As for the cowl, it does indeed represent a big step forward, imo, compared to previous types which had to be alinged, drilled, and secured with multiple small screws. In addition, it need only be installed once, and that installation is not difficult with proper tools in my experience (having done twice myself).

As for break-down time: Has anyone in this thread built several biplanes in this size before? In my 30 years of modelling, I have owned several other biplanes, and none of them could be disassembled faster than the Samson2. It takes me 5 minutes or less (more like 3. I use a Bosch electric screwdriver).

If anyone feels that the breakdown (or setup) of the wings is overly time-consuming, do you have a suggestion for a system which would be better, and maintain full mechanical strength? (note that scale look must be maintained!)

Mr. Gareau, I would suggest that perhaps our models are not appropriate for you at this time, given your list of requirements. However, your requirements ARE in fact what we are aiming for, so that everyone - regardless of their building skills and experience - can have a flawless build experience.

But we are a small company, and "perfection" is an ongoing target. To hit that target faster, we are establishing a new R&D center in the USA so that we can attract the talented people we need to help create industry-leading instructions manuals, and continue to introduce innovations in build and flight performance.

Best Regards,

David





Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Gareau
If you put all the little problems that poeple are bringing up it pretty much ads up to my experience.
I do thank everyone for there suggestions, I appreciate that you took your time to try and help me, but that was not really the point of my post. The point was this plane is maketed as a SUPER ARF. I buy these things to save myself from the troubles associated with bulding. I dont want to improve any thing in the box, I dont want to change anything in the box as a matter of facts I am looking forward to being amazed at the new Ideas and ways of doing things. I love learning new and better ways of doing things, I sadly have to say that this SUPER ARF had nothing new really and alot of the same old problems. I know Nippon Dave is around this thread quite often and I appreciate is dedication but I ask him; will we soon be able to buy an ARF that is fun to put together with standard tools.
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 02:44 PM
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maverickma's Avatar
Fogelsville, PA
Joined Mar 2004
670 Posts
R.Gareau, I built the Hyperion Yak 55 25e (which flies great by the way) and I just....as in today.....will finish up my Hyperion Super Chipmunk 70e which hopefully will survive its maiden on Monday. In terms of quality, the Hyperion kits are excellent and the instructions are pretty good. From the research I've done and the planes I've built and seen, compared to the competition...the quality of the Hyperion planes are a little better (and certainly priced better) and the instructions are about right on par. Yes, they can be frustrating to build, but that's part of the experience and this is why we have forums like this one so that we can reach out when we need help. Pretty much everyone is helpful here....some more than others...(Randy from RC Dude should truly be commended on his patience and knowledge as a Hyperion dealer..if it wasn't for him I might have left the hobby....but I continue to buy Hyperion stuff!). The Samson II is next.

My only concern is no replacement parts like wings and fuses....that's kind of a bummer.

Anyway...hang in there bro and don't give up...the joy the final product will bring you will outweight the frustration you are feeling now.
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 03:19 PM
All electric, all the time!
QuietRCFly's Avatar
USA, WA, Bellevue
Joined Aug 2005
1,430 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickma

My only concern is no replacement parts like wings and fuses....that's kind of a bummer.
While Hyperion does not market replacement wings and fuselages as a separate item, parts for many of their models can be ordered through your dealer. I had a customer this week who needed a fuse for the FW190 25e and a stabilizer set. I called the US distributor and got a quote for the parts and ordered them for my customer. It may take a few days, especially when they are coming mail order since they have to go to the dealer first, but it is possible. In extreme cases where there was a need and parts are not available, I have parted out a kit.

Chris

Quiet RC Flying
www.quietrcflying.com
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 03:40 PM
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R.Gareau's Avatar
Laval, Quebec, Canada
Joined Jul 2009
199 Posts
As for the cowl, it does indeed represent a big step forward, imo, compared to previous types which had to be alinged, drilled, and secured with multiple small screws. In addition, it need only be installed once, and that installation is not difficult with proper tools in my experience (having done twice myself.

Are there any other places those bolts can go? this fuselage is nice and big, I do like the bolts from the back I just find they are very hard to access.


If anyone feels that the breakdown (or setup) of the wings is overly time-consuming, do you have a suggestion for a system which would be better, and maintain full mechanical strength? (note that scale look must be maintained!)

The one thing that I will change on mine are the ball links, the washers on mine prevent those ball links from comming apart (unless I am doing something wrong) so to take the push rod between the top and bottom wing off I have to unscrew that little bolt that goes true the ball link and control horn. please let me know if I am doing something wrong

Mr. Gareau, I would suggest that perhaps our models are not appropriate for you at this time, given your list of requirements. However, your requirements ARE in fact what we are aiming for, so that everyone - regardless of their building skills and experience - can have a flawless build experience.

I was really hopping that your products were apropriate for people like me, I like to buy high quality goods and Hyperion does have a reputation for high quality. You may have seen in earlier post I own a Hyperion charger EOS 720i and several G3 batteries 3s and 6s.
I hope you noticed in my posts that I never mentioned price, that I,am not looking for a deal.. I do not by low price goods direct from Hong Kong, I encourage my local Hobby Shop I just want to have fun flying my models with as little problems has possible. Am I not the customers ARF manufacter are looking for?


Best Regards,

David[/QUOTE]

Thank you for replying and I do appreciate your time, I have been following this thread since the very first post, I read and re-read the review with anticipation of getting my Samson. The hobby shop did not have the model in the store for more then 2 hours as I rushed over to pick it up. I had not seen or heard one bad thing about the model and therfore was expecting no troubles what so ever. 3 to 6 hours of bulding and I am up in the air with a huge grin... Unfortunately that is not quite the way it went and I thaugh it was important to talk about it here so that others dont end up with the same kind of experience. I was really trying to help both Hyperion and there future customers I am sorry if I missed the mark.
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 03:47 PM
Assistant Pitman's Helper
R.Gareau's Avatar
Laval, Quebec, Canada
Joined Jul 2009
199 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickma
R.Gareau, I built the Hyperion Yak 55 25e (which flies great by the way) and I just....as in today.....will finish up my Hyperion Super Chipmunk 70e which hopefully will survive its maiden on Monday. In terms of quality, the Hyperion kits are excellent and the instructions are pretty good. From the research I've done and the planes I've built and seen, compared to the competition...the quality of the Hyperion planes are a little better (and certainly priced better) and the instructions are about right on par. Yes, they can be frustrating to build, but that's part of the experience and this is why we have forums like this one so that we can reach out when we need help. Pretty much everyone is helpful here....some more than others...(Randy from RC Dude should truly be commended on his patience and knowledge as a Hyperion dealer..if it wasn't for him I might have left the hobby....but I continue to buy Hyperion stuff!). The Samson II is next.

My only concern is no replacement parts like wings and fuses....that's kind of a bummer.

Anyway...hang in there bro and don't give up...the joy the final product will bring you will outweight the frustration you are feeling now.

Thank you

Funny if not for the patience of my local hobby shop guy I may have left the hobby (again) to!
I hope that all the bad memories go away when I fly the Samson this weekend
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 05:03 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
27,187 Posts
Hi David....

In looking back at my posts, maybe it looks like some of my comments were negative, If so, It was probably due to my trying to placate Mr. Gareau, but I really only have the comments that I made about the latter parts of the instructions (as I felt the first nine steps were pretty good), but other than that, I have to agree, this is a great kit, and believe me, the first time I saw this plane online, I told my son I "HAD" to have one, so, I bought the FIRST one that got to my local hobby shop. And, as soon as I saw the kit I was in awe of it....and now that I have all the parts, and as soon as my shop cools down a bit, (it was 104 degrees in there the other day, I will be finishing mine.

Please keep up the good work....

SteveT
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 06:22 PM
Where did Steve go ?
Alexandra
Joined Jul 2007
3,311 Posts
Couldn't agree more, yeap I was annoyed the first time I installed the cowl (before I got the right tool). But the look of the cowl without ugly screws is more than worth it.

Break down time: I have a 1/4 scale Stampe and an AMD ultimate in my bipe stable. The 1/4 scale Stampe takes 45 minutes. The amd obviously dosn't need to be pulled apart but I have had to do it and it was 20 minutes. When I wrecked the landing gear the other day I was pleasantly surprised at just how quick and easy it was to breakdown.

If you built it and wanted to pull it apart more often you could look at quick release pins on the struts between top and bottom. Might sacrifice a bit of strength if your 3d flying but for scale flying this will be fine. Personally im lucky the plane fits built in my car so I can keep the stronger option.

One thing I would like to add is the quality of the fittings, balsa and film. The balsa is extremely good with no light weight flour timber used. The fittings are as good as dubro or any Hanger 9 / Great Planes kit I have built. I got close and personal with the film when fixing the landing gear and again they have used a premium grade film as opposed to some of the plastic's you can get.

Yes the manual could be better, thankfully that's an easy fix. Bang for buck there is not a kit/bipe like it available in the world today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NipponDave
<Snip>
As for the cowl, it does indeed represent a big step forward, imo, compared to previous types which had to be alinged, drilled, and secured with multiple small screws. In addition, it need only be installed once, and that installation is not difficult with proper tools in my experience (having done twice myself).

As for break-down time: Has anyone in this thread built several biplanes in this size before? In my 30 years of modelling, I have owned several other biplanes, and none of them could be disassembled faster than the Samson2. It takes me 5 minutes or less (more like 3. I use a Bosch electric screwdriver).<snip>
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 06:30 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
27,187 Posts
Quote:
Yes the manual could be better, thankfully that's an easy fix. Bang for buck there is not a kit/bipe like it available in the world today.
I couldn't agree more...


As to a suggestion to make the plane "better"...I don't know if better would be the term I would use, but as I said, I think knurled thumbscrews (not the flat "butterfly type) could be used on the top wing where the cabane struts attach. They wouldn't be seen, except when the plane is upside down when it was being assembled. It would just mean you wouldn't have to use a driver of any type on those four screws....just a suggestion, and for those that would like to use them, if they were included in the kit, it would probably cost Hyperion about 20 cents, which could be added on to the cost of the plane...

SteveT
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 06:33 PM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
2,501 Posts
Hi,

Yes, you are indeed the kind of customer we are looking for! Even if we don't hit your mark in terms of documentation and novel features quite yet, it won't be too much longer before we do.

At the same time, it is my job to make sure that our products are viewed accurately by ALL users.

For example, the Chipmunk 10e got slammed very hard by a number of modelers who had started with eflight (rather than glow models) and virtually all of their experience was with very light foamy models. They were furious that the model would snap out of the sky when they "slowed down", and there were a lot of comments on how crappy the "design" was.

Well, the Chip 10e is NOT a foamie! What it is is a SUPERB model for medium to high-speed traditional aerobatics. That is, it can do things that faomies can't, and vice-versa. More recently, we have been getting comments like this, from modelers who have experience with models in this class:

"She's quite hot and you can't afford to make mistakes like having the battery die early or let her ever get behind a building. She needs a lot of room to open her stride and you have to give it to her. My new favorite trick is the double snap roll on the deck. The first time I did it the guys came out of their chairs because they thought I was going to stuff her in to the ground. She makes a great sound when tumbling at high speed."

"Flew a couple times last night...MAN forgot how much fun this little plane can be. Have been flying some others and been neglecting the chippy for awhile. Does some wicked snaps and flies like it is on rails. Need to keep giving it a fair share of airtime!!! Would love to take it to the club field, but the grass is pretty thick for the little wheels (not ideal for smaller electrics) and fear may snag on landing and break something. "


"She is not critical about snapping and spinning when flying slow at all. My Formosa is much worse than the Chipmunk when landing. The Chipmunk's ailerons keep working until you reach the last moment before landing - and then they do quit working. But if you are on the deck at stall speed when landing and need ailerons you aren't doing it right - and it ain't the Chipmunk's fault.

After 20+ landings with the Chipmunk I have yet to bend the stock landing gear - though I did scrape the wing tips on the first few landings.

She performs so well overall that I couldn't be happier with her. When I fly her the other pilots land so they can watch her fly. She does Knife Edge better than I can. The 3D pilots get antsy when she does Knife Edge at 40+ mph 20 feet off the ground for the length of the field."


So what we have is two TOTALLY different perspectives, based on what the end user expects (and their different perceptions of speed based on their experience), rather than the actual attributes of the product.

Having said all that, your issues were more related to a lack of INFO that you expected, rather than flaws with the product. And we all agree that Hyperion needs to do a better job especially with the supplied documentation.

So, I do not think your complaints are the slightest bit in error. They will help us help you and others in future.

Thanks You,

David


Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Gareau
I was really hopping that your products were apropriate for people like me, I like to buy high quality goods and Hyperion does have a reputation for high quality. You may have seen in earlier post I own a Hyperion charger EOS 720i and several G3 batteries 3s and 6s.
I hope you noticed in my posts that I never mentioned price, that I,am not looking for a deal.. I do not by low price goods direct from Hong Kong, I encourage my local Hobby Shop I just want to have fun flying my models with as little problems has possible. Am I not the customers ARF manufacter are looking for?
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 06:37 PM
Where did Steve go ?
Alexandra
Joined Jul 2007
3,311 Posts
Now this doesn't mean you guys can go and raise the prices ok.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draknkep
I couldn't agree more...

SteveT
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 07:37 PM
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R.Gareau's Avatar
Laval, Quebec, Canada
Joined Jul 2009
199 Posts
thank you David,

I just came back from the first flight, I was so anxious to get to the feild after the days work that I did not remember I had not secured the receiver last nite... well thank god for tie wraps and the never ending supply of tie down holes in the floor of the sampson I fixed that. I pushed the batterie pretty much as far forwards as I could and check the CG again and it seemed ok, did a quick range check (new receiver) and everything seemed like a go. So onto the runway ease up on the throttle a little right rudder and up she went and , and up Ok down trim... more down trim alot of down trim, I guess she is a little tail heavy... now I admit that is all my fault for checking the CG so fast...

With enough down trim she flew ok but I was quite conserned about the landing so I got her up high slowed right down and waited to see how she whould stall, Hmm I dont really think I saw a stall she just mushed down and started flying again. OK that is very nice. I did a few circuits to trim out the elerons and everything else but there was very little to check or trim, she is a bit tail heavy but the rest seems perfect. I did a medium slow speed fly by about 4 feet of the ground and everything was OK went around again and landed perfect. My first impresion of the flight is, I'm very impressed with the slow speed caracteristics even tail heavy she floated for ever much like a glider. Like in Feathers review I find the controls very VERY efficient. I set the high rates as per intructions. medium at 60% and low at 30% I took off at medium and it was ok for quick reaction but went dow to low rates and that is more the enough for sunday fliyng. Cant wait for tomorrow I will move the speed control to make it easyer for me to move the battery forward all the way and then I'm sure I can start having real fun. Still for now I will sleep with a smile on my face.....
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 08:38 PM
Use the 4S Luke
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Joined Aug 2003
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Congrats R.
I will be taking mine to the field tomorrow.
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Old Sep 05, 2009, 12:37 AM
Citizen #96
Steve Graham's Avatar
NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
726 Posts
Greetings all,

I got mine home tonight and it is just georgous. I looked through all the parts and did not find anything unexpected except for the cowl which could be used for a small trash can its so big.

I made a quick review of the illustrations and while abreviated to be sure everything looks familiar to other arfs I've built. The other guy that got one was at the LHS and said he has a guy that builds all his arfs for free. I think I'd have a hard time sleeping if I didn't at least assemble my own arfs but it would be kinda cool to have a guy show up at my door with my RTF Samson.

It was all I could do to keep from ripping into the build but I'm going to try and show some restraint. Toledo Special 2 sits nearly complete on my bench and I want to finish it first. TS 1 met an early demise thanks to an incredibly incompetant builder who forgot to put the spars in. The Samsons wings are fully assembled so I wont make that mistake with this one at least.

One comment on the 4025-16. OK 2. First it looks like a very high quality peice of hardware. I've never seen a motor set up like this before but then again this is my largest motor to date. The rear bearing is huge on this thing. Second however and I think I smell a theme here with Hyperion, is that there is zero documentation with the motor. I know you can get it online but this seems realy wrong for a $120.00 motor.

Is this still a park flier?

Tailwinds, Steve
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Old Sep 05, 2009, 10:43 AM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Is this still a park flier?
Depends on how big your park is...

SteveT
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Old Sep 05, 2009, 12:09 PM
Citizen #96
Steve Graham's Avatar
NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
726 Posts
BTW, Many thanks to NipponDave. I have seen evidence of your involvement with product support and it is appreciated. Your commitment to contiuning product development is very much respected by this consumer. I know good documentation is expensive and not easy but it can definately set your product apart beyond the fundamental quality of the kits.

Steve
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