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Old Sep 03, 2009, 07:56 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
26,097 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Gareau
I have a simple and honnest question for this thread.

After seing this ARF advertized I immediately knew I had to have one. I ordered it trough my local Hobby Shop who is the biggest promoter of Hyperion Products I have ever meet and finnally got the plane. What turns out to be one of the, if not the most frustrating experience of my modeling life beggan.

My question is this; Is this the right place to talk about it?
I am not in a vendictive mode, I just want to know if I'm the only one to have such a hard time with this ARF.

Plus will I be Band for talking bad about a sponsors products?

No, you will not be banned....and yes this is the place to talk about it...but I am really curious about what kind of problems you have had. Though I have only got mine about half done, I have only seen one very small problem, and that was one of the slots for the interplane struts was slightly out of alignment (It leaned in a bit) but nothing that was any difficulty at all to fix.

The only other thing is the very minimal instructions, but quite truthfully, I think that anybody that has the piloting skills to fly this plane (though from what I have heard, it is not hard to fly) will have a few ARFs (or will actually have built planes from kits) under his belt. And...there is a review of these plane here, which has a lot more info on building this kit.

Just my 2 Cents, and you are of course welcome to express yours... it is always good to see the opposite side of the coin...

SteveT
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Old Sep 03, 2009, 08:56 PM
Assistant Pitman's Helper
R.Gareau's Avatar
Laval, Quebec, Canada
Joined Jul 2009
199 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Who
Maybe you should comment about some of your concerns and see if anyone has experienced the same issue. If so they also may have a way to resolve it.
Thank you

I may start by saying that my expectations were really high, I own other Hyperion products (batteries, charger) witch I really enjoy. I have been flying and building for a very long time (started in 1968 with my father) I recently got back into it more then ever because of electric and ARF. I never really enjoyed building that much and always disliked the smell and feel of fuel. I own and fly a Fliton extra300 hybrid and absolutely love it. I was hoping this plane would be even better because of Hyperions reputation and because the design is 5 years more modern.

1- the instructions would be better left at the manufacture... many times my gut was telling me this has to be wrong and I'm sure it was for instance, they are no indications that the fake motor should be cut to allow air in?
should it?


Altough the instruction have pictograms for what kind of glue to use and were to put it there are no indication that the aluminium strut anchors should be glued. I know these are kind of obvious but I like to do things right, so I listen to instructions when I see things like this I secound guess myself.

The elevator and aileron push rods are to long not by much but the question remain why are they not right with room for fine tunning...

I know that Bi-planes are longer to assemble at the feild but this plane takes the cake. I expected a new generation of ARF to make it easyer but it is quite the contrary I had a SIG Skybolt in the early 80's that came apart easyer

Who is going to tell me they enjoyed putting the Cowling on? I'm sure there has to be a better way.
Anybody else feels this way?
Again my first experience with ARF's was with the Fliton and 10 pages of clear instructions and parts that fit.

this might be another thread altogether but how easy or frustrating should an ARF be in 2009?
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Old Sep 03, 2009, 09:19 PM
Citizen #96
Steve Graham's Avatar
NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
708 Posts
Wow

I should get mine tomorrow. Good to know ahead of time. I've had some arf's that were woefully short on instructions. European mostly. Sounds like you really need to take your time and consider each step real carefully. In the past with dummy motors I have just used lexan scissors to rough out the gaps between the cylinders and then a dremal for finish work.

I will probably leave the plane together and transport in my truck so I don't have to risk damaging somthing each time I assemble it.

Steve
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Old Sep 03, 2009, 09:38 PM
Assistant Pitman's Helper
R.Gareau's Avatar
Laval, Quebec, Canada
Joined Jul 2009
199 Posts
I have a minivan so I can transport it without taking it apart to but that leave very little place for my other planes and my sons plane (he is third generation RC pilot)

Please let us know how you find your build Steve
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Old Sep 03, 2009, 10:25 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
26,097 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Gareau
Thank you

I may start by saying that my expectations were really high, I own other Hyperion products (batteries, charger) witch I really enjoy. I have been flying and building for a very long time (started in 1968 with my father) I recently got back into it more then ever because of electric and ARF. I never really enjoyed building that much and always disliked the smell and feel of fuel. I own and fly a Fliton extra300 hybrid and absolutely love it. I was hoping this plane would be even better because of Hyperions reputation and because the design is 5 years more modern.

1- the instructions would be better left at the manufacture... many times my gut was telling me this has to be wrong and I'm sure it was for instance, they are no indications that the fake motor should be cut to allow air in?
should it?


Altough the instruction have pictograms for what kind of glue to use and were to put it there are no indication that the aluminium strut anchors should be glued. I know these are kind of obvious but I like to do things right, so I listen to instructions when I see things like this I secound guess myself.

The elevator and aileron push rods are to long not by much but the question remain why are they not right with room for fine tunning...

I know that Bi-planes are longer to assemble at the feild but this plane takes the cake. I expected a new generation of ARF to make it easyer but it is quite the contrary I had a SIG Skybolt in the early 80's that came apart easyer

Who is going to tell me they enjoyed putting the Cowling on? I'm sure there has to be a better way.
Anybody else feels this way?
Again my first experience with ARF's was with the Fliton and 10 pages of clear instructions and parts that fit.

this might be another thread altogether but how easy or frustrating should an ARF be in 2009?

Hello...

Ok...If I may address some of these issues...

#1... I already commented on the instructions, and yes, I agree with you, but I have built many helicopters and planes coming from Asian countries, and unfortunately most of the people that write the instruction for these plane, while they may be fairly fluent in "conversational" English, as not fluent in "technical" English. Two companies that have even worse manuals are Sapac, and GWS...most of theirs are absolutely horrible.
Again, in this case, as I mentioned you can check the review I posted, and between the instructions and the review, you can get a fairly good idea of what needs to be done.

And...at least they are not like the instructions for a Hirobo scale Jet Ranger heli that had about four pages of instructions that you would follow, but then when you got to the fifth page, it said.....and I quote.. "But before you do those things (meaning the steps on the first four pages)...do this" (a step that could not be done if you did those things first)!!!

#2... When adhering aluminum parts, you always need to rough them (50 grit sandpaper, etc.) up and then use epoxy. Yes, this should be noted on the plans and it is not, but the review does say to use epoxy, but mentions nothing about roughing them up.

#3... Depending on the servos you use, the rods may be too long if the servo output shafts are not in the same place as the ones that were used on the prototype. Mine are fine.

#4... Any Biplane will be more difficult to transport, and yes, it takes a few minutes to take it apart or assemble at the field, in this case it takes 14 screws to install the wing. six of which can be changed to thumbscrews (the four that attach the upper wing to the cabane struts, and the two that attach the lower wing to the fuselage. And if you are really careful, you could leave the interplane struts attached to either the upper or lower wing saving some time ( I wouldn't do this, but you could)

And if you think this plane is difficult to assemble at the field NEVER buy a "Hangar 9" Fokker D Vll, that one takes two people (it even says so in the instructions).

Hopefully, if you didn't already know these tricks of the trade, it will help you the next time.

SteveT
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Old Sep 03, 2009, 10:55 PM
Assistant Pitman's Helper
R.Gareau's Avatar
Laval, Quebec, Canada
Joined Jul 2009
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I guess the real problem is that my expectation were to high for the bulding part.

Hopefully when I fly it this weekend I will forget all those little things.
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Old Sep 03, 2009, 11:35 PM
Citizen #96
Steve Graham's Avatar
NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
708 Posts
"Two companies that have even worse manuals are Sapac, and GWS...most of theirs are absolutely horrible."

I forgot about the Slow Stick manual.

That has got to be the funniest example of BAAAD Chienglish that I have ever seen.

Even without that great little bird the manual alone is worth the price of admission.
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Old Sep 03, 2009, 11:59 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.W. Corrigan
"Two companies that have even worse manuals are Sapac, and GWS...most of theirs are absolutely horrible."

I forgot about the Slow Stick manual.

That has got to be the funniest example of BAAAD Chienglish that I have ever seen.

Even without that great little bird the manual alone is worth the price of admission.
The Slow Stick is great....The manual....SUCKS!!!

I do have to ask...are the manuals for other Hyperion kits as "skimpy" as the one for the Samson??

SteveT
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 12:18 AM
Citizen #96
Steve Graham's Avatar
NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
708 Posts
Quote:
I do have to ask...are the manuals for other Hyperion kits as "skimpy" as the one for the Samson??
IDK

This will be my first Hyperion AC

I'm loving their new 615i duo charger and G3 Batteries.

If the AC is sound hopefully we can all help each other fill in the gaps.
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 12:35 AM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
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Hi Guys....

I think its about time that somebody actually did a full build thread on this plane..

And... I wonder if Hyperion would be interested in having somebody do a "step by step" addendum to their instructions. Although..really in all actuality, with the exceptions of a few missing things (like the lack of info on what adhesive to use to mount the interplane strut mounts), the drawings really do show pretty much everything that is needed to build the plane.


By the way, I edited my reply about mounting the cowling, as I have not yet mounted mine, and I was thinking of how the cowl is mounted on my "Zero Gravity" Pitts Python, not how this cowling is mounted.

I can certainly see that for someone with large hands like myself, getting the screws into the cowling might be a real challenge, but then that is what holding screw-drivers are for.

I'm sitting here looking at the instructions, and really steps 1-9 are pretty self explanatory, with the exception that you should use a bit of blue "loc-tite" on the screws/nuts on the ball-links, and any other machine screws such as on the landing gear, motor mounts and cowling. It isn't until I get to step 10 where I see anything that isn't clear, and this is that you should remove the covering where you glue the wing re-enforcement plate on, and you should use epoxy to adhere it (It doesn't say what kind of adhesive to use). On Page 11, I would recommend the use of blue "loc-tite" when attaching the Cabane struts. I would also recommend the use of lock washers on all wing attachment screws, as you certainly don't want them loosening up when flying. And as noted before, in step 13 roughen up the aluminum interplane strut mounts where they glue into the wing with epoxy. Step 14 doesn't say it, but use epoxy to mount the control horns like you did in steps 2, 4, and 5. And again use "loc-tite" on the ball-link screws/nuts

SteveT
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 01:17 AM
Where did Steve go ?
Alexandra
Joined Jul 2007
3,309 Posts
Not easy but having the right tools makes it much better. I got myself the correct long allenkey driver and now having had it off a couple of times it's really quite easy. I like this system better than ugly screws on the outside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Gareau
<snip>
Who is going to tell me they enjoyed putting the Cowling on? I'm sure there has to be a better way.
Anybody else feels this way?<snip>
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 05:08 AM
Use the 4S Luke
feathermerchant's Avatar
USA, TX, Euless
Joined Aug 2003
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I built the review plane without instructions and it went together quite easily. I used a small magnet on the allen driver to hold the screw on it while mounting the cowl. Here's a link:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=2508481

I used no loctite except to hold the 'X' mount to the motor. I check screws from time to time and only the cabane secews in the fuselage have loosened and just from the wood compressing.
Lock washers would make the interplane screws too short anyway. I used an old servo box to hold the hardware for transport. It velcros to the battery tray.
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 07:28 AM
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I felt like the assy. was pretty straight forward and easy IF you have put an ARF together before. The only problem I had was after gluing the aluminum screw mounts in the wings I had to enlarge the holes in the outer wing struts. I think, looking back, that I should have screwed the screw mounts to the struts and then glued them in the wing as a unit, that way the screws would have lined up better. Cowl mounting is easy with a ball end Hex Driver.I would agree that a better manual would be appreciated for such a nice kit.
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 09:41 AM
All electric, all the time!
QuietRCFly's Avatar
USA, WA, Bellevue
Joined Aug 2005
1,430 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draknkep
Hi Guys....


And... I wonder if Hyperion would be interested in having somebody do a "step by step" addendum to their instructions. Although..really in all actuality, with the exceptions of a few missing things (like the lack of info on what adhesive to use to mount the interplane strut mounts), the drawings really do show pretty much everything that is needed to build the plane.

SteveT
Hyperion has in the past added a set of written instructions to their kits that help to fill in the blanks. If fact, they have done this for most of their kits, however, sometimes it takes longer for those to be completed. Hopefully they will come out with one soon to help out.

Chris

Quiet RC Flying
www.quietrcflying.com
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 09:54 AM
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R.Gareau's Avatar
Laval, Quebec, Canada
Joined Jul 2009
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If you put all the little problems that poeple are bringing up it pretty much ads up to my experience.
I do thank everyone for there suggestions, I appreciate that you took your time to try and help me, but that was not really the point of my post. The point was this plane is maketed as a SUPER ARF. I buy these things to save myself from the troubles associated with bulding. I dont want to improve any thing in the box, I dont want to change anything in the box as a matter of facts I am looking forward to being amazed at the new Ideas and ways of doing things. I love learning new and better ways of doing things, I sadly have to say that this SUPER ARF had nothing new really and alot of the same old problems. I know Nippon Dave is around this thread quite often and I appreciate is dedication but I ask him; will we soon be able to buy an ARF that is fun to put together with standard tools.
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