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Old Aug 24, 2009, 12:05 PM
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ssatoru's Avatar
Chiba, Japan
Joined Jan 2002
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Here is small video of my Samson II. Not the best but you can see how it flies. Pilot is a good reviewer who flew lots of planes and is trying Samson II for the first time.
It had APC 17x10e and power is only 1000W+/less than 50A with 6S, ZS4025-16. Its power is only marginal, and pitch is a bit too high for this plane. I changed to APC 19x8e now and it drew about 1,250W or so with good climb and slower flight.

http://9.hobby-web.net/~ssatoru/SamsonII.wmv (7MB)
(edited volume here and there, my voice is too loud..)

In this flight, he tries barrel roles and commented flight characteristic is good. Note we are flying in small soccur field where you do not want to fly regular 4.0kg plane.

flyingrally, sorry to hear your damage and it is a beautiful repair. I also broke my gear legs on that day. I had a heavy rain early on that day and gear mount got wet, weakened I think. I repaired it, reignforced with 2mm carbon plate now. Gear plate has CNC cut holes to save weight, which I think ridiculous to weaken it. If this is gas plane, I would paint with clear to protect from fuel. I believe it is not a good idea to leave raw wood plate at least.

With APC 19x8e, Samson II now flies very slow and well. It has enough power to fly full pattern flight somehow.

Satoru
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Last edited by ssatoru; Aug 24, 2009 at 12:12 PM.
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Old Aug 24, 2009, 12:13 PM
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I agree it is a very well designed ARF as well as a real head turner at the field.
It is so easy to land that gear damage ought to be pretty rare.
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Old Aug 24, 2009, 03:14 PM
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Feather, has Ben Fisher flown yours yet? I hope that you've shown him this one! It might give him a little inspiration for a 3DHS Bipe..
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Old Aug 24, 2009, 05:39 PM
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Alexandra
Joined Jul 2007
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Agreed, I really shouldn't have been flying it in the wind that I did as I find the plane to be a real floater. My problem came from trying to land into a strong head wind that was running just a bit off straight down the runway. I was having problems getting it out of the sky, everytime I touched the throttle it wanted to climb but being so lite It didn't have the weight (plus hi drag bipe airframe) to cut into the air on minimum throttle for me to land properly. In the end I got caught out and plopped down slightly sideways and a bit too hard.

I agree with ssatoru, the landing plate really didn't need to be drilled out to save weight.

However I would rather it broke like it did than be too strong and stayed intact breaking the firewall and wing mounting formers. It's always going to be a trade off between strength and weight. I think they have got the design spot on.


Anyone added more down thrust ?



Quote:
Originally Posted by feathermerchant
I agree it is a very well designed ARF as well as a real head turner at the field.
It is so easy to land that gear damage ought to be pretty rare.
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Old Aug 24, 2009, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotnuts
Feather, has Ben Fisher flown yours yet? I hope that you've shown him this one! It might give him a little inspiration for a 3DHS Bipe..
Well, Ben has flown it. I tink he just has a thing against biplanes. That and he did not like the same colors top an bottom. I tried to explain that's a part of the 'pain' of scale. Color bothers some more than others. I have crappy eyes anyway so mort than a few feet and color doesn't matter to me. I look at the LG, rudder and canopy for orientation.
In addition, I had the Power 60 on it at that time and it is not near as powerful as the Hyperion I have on it now.
In all, don't expect a bipe from 3DHS anytime soon. In the meantime enjoy this one. I think it is a very fine ARF. Y'all have read my review right?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1045313
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Old Aug 24, 2009, 07:57 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
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San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssatoru

It had APC 17x10e and power is only 1000W+/less than 50A with 6S, ZS4025-16. Its power is only marginal, and pitch is a bit too high for this plane. I changed to APC 19x8e now and it drew about 1,250W or so with good climb and slower flight.

Satoru
Hi Satoru....

Hmmmm....Pretty much everybody else on this thread said that on 6S with that motor the power is very good. I'm curious as to how many "C" your batteries are??? I have purchased some new 30C and as noted have heard good things with this setup.

SteveT
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Old Aug 24, 2009, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draknkep
Hi Satoru....

Hmmmm....Pretty much everybody else on this thread said that on 6S with that motor the power is very good. I'm curious as to how many "C" your batteries are??? I have purchased some new 30C and as noted have heard good things with this setup.

SteveT
Satoru tests Hyperion models for us in Japan, and helps us write a lot of the Japanese manuals and web pages. He is extremely honest in his reviews, but there are a couple things he didn't note which may leave the wrong impressions.

First, his landing gear plate issue was after the model had gotten pretty water logged after having been on very wet grass earlier (or maybe also some rain, don't remember exactly). Just the same, we will follow his good advice and remove the weight-saving holes in landing gear plate during future production.

Second, he was using a prototype ESC with low timing on his motor. That probably accounts for the reduced current draw on the Zs4025-16T motor he has. Before long we'll get him a production ATLAS ESC and have the timing advanced, and see how it goes.

FYI, so far the 14T motor is the only one if you want to fly 5S. 14T is very well liked also by pilots using 6S, especially if you want to 3D. The 16T motor is a good choice for smoother power on 6S (I like 18x12), or a very powerful 8S setup on smaller packs like 3700mAh to 4200mAh.

David
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 03:48 AM
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SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
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Hi David....

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was anything other than just curious as to why there was what seemed to be a lack of power (as stated by Satoru), I was certainly not trying to be smart or anything like that. I was just wondering if maybe he was using lower C rating battery that was not up to the task.

And...

Quote:
The 16T motor is a good choice for smoother power on 6S (I like 18x12), or a very powerful 8S setup on smaller packs like 3700mAh to 4200mAh.
Boy, I sure wish I had known about the 8S setup, as I have two sets of brand new 4S Thunderpower "Pro Power" 3850 packs (four packs). I wouldn't have had to purchase the two 6S 5000mah packs I just ordered.

Also...

Have I just missed them or are there no specs available for the 16T motor?? I have looked for them on many sites, but to no avail. If I could have found the specs, then perhaps, I would have known that the motor could have been used on 8S...

SteveT
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Last edited by SteveT.; Aug 25, 2009 at 04:17 AM.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feathermerchant
Well, Ben has flown it. I tink he just has a thing against biplanes. That and he did not like the same colors top an bottom. I tried to explain that's a part of the 'pain' of scale. Color bothers some more than others. I have crappy eyes anyway so mort than a few feet and color doesn't matter to me. I look at the LG, rudder and canopy for orientation.
In addition, I had the Power 60 on it at that time and it is not near as powerful as the Hyperion I have on it now.
In all, don't expect a bipe from 3DHS anytime soon. In the meantime enjoy this one. I think it is a very fine ARF. Y'all have read my review right?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1045313
Yep, I read it first before I even ordered it. Great review! I too have older eyes but I'm gonna' fly it first before I do anything with the bottom side.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 01:39 PM
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Goleta, CA
Joined Mar 2006
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Well, I maiden mine a couple of days ago. I tried a light setup with a Scorpion 4025-12 on 5s 3700 Outrage packs swinging a 18x8 prop (7lbs 13oz). It just didn't have that much power. The CG was right at 3.5" back from the upper wing's leading edge, but on takeoff the plane climbed dramatically and pulled hard to the left. About 10 clicks of right rudder trim fixed that but the CG was well aft when flown with the recommended location. When flown inverted the plane would do an outside loop all on it's own.

That night I added two washers per bolt on the left wide of the motor mount to get some additional right thrust and decided to go with a 6s 5000mAh setup instead of my 5s 3700mAh (now 8lbs 9oz). The next day's flights went well. The plane tracked much better and even held a great up line. The neutral CG for my plane ended up about 3/4" in front of the recommended 3.5". Flew level inverted without any elevator inputs. This plane not only looks GREAT on the ground but it looks great flying also. Almost looked like a real bi-plane flying down the coast line.

pootman
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 08:46 PM
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Chiba, Japan
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Thank you David. Yes, I agree I do not see much issue with current gear mount.

Actually my data is not far off. Hyperion ZS4025-16 test data shows this.
APC 1710E 6S 23.54V 3.92V/cel 46.7A 1100W 6291rpm

SteveT, I am not saying ZS4025-16 is not powerful, it requires larger prop to get power. Non G3 lipo will require more larger prop, G3 gives very high voltage...

The motor can accept larger load (larger prop) very easily for more power. I feel current setting is not pushing motor at all. I am measuring temperature of motor (at the point of motor back plate) with EMeter in flight, It is very cool at less than 50 deg Celcius even with APC 19x8e. New ZS motor is showing good efficiency, room to accept larger load.

APC 19x8 gives good power to me, easy to fly P09 pattern which requires strong vertial climbs. I will try larger prop later.

By the way, I forgot to say I like Samson II much now. It is really gourgeous to see it fly scale like, showing good behavior near and past stall, rolls straight even at high alpha.

Hope this helps.

Satoru
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 04:34 PM
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American in Japan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssatoru
Actually my data is not far off. Hyperion ZS4025-16 test data shows this.
APC 1710E 6S 23.54V 3.92V/cel 46.7A 1100W 6291rpm

Satoru
Yes, but Daisuke was also using a prototype ESC and had not adjusted the timing up. Anyway, I'll get back to Japan soon and we'll be re-doing all the tests with ESC timing advanced and G3 lipo to be sure we've got the most usable data...

David
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 05:10 PM
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United States, CA, Vista
Joined Feb 2009
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Samson elevator linkage

I'm about to order one of these planes and I'm curious about the elevator setup. Is it servo driven on one side and connected across with a torsion wire? I didn't think that was quite stiff enough on my Hyperion 40e Extra and I like the two servo setup now that I have the 120e Extra. The wire worked okay, I guess, but I'm thinking I might want two servos on the Samson perhaps. Is there easy room for that? Is the stock setup fine? Hyperion does a really nice job, but a person can always find something to question, even if it's just a matter of opinion, and I thought the 40e elevator wire was a little marginal. I guess I could also replace the wire (if that's what it is) with a small torque tube.

Jeff
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 05:16 PM
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It is a rather thick joiner. I have had 0 problems with mine. Two servos in the tail WILL give you CG problems. ie you'll have to add lead to the cowl or heavier batteries and/or motor.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 06:36 PM
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Alexandra
Joined Jul 2007
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Hmm I'm not so sure about the adding lead. I have a mile of room to slide a 5000 6s pak forward still. Will put a servo on the tail and see if I can still get it to balance today and let you know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by feathermerchant
It is a rather thick joiner. I have had 0 problems with mine. Two servos in the tail WILL give you CG problems. ie you'll have to add lead to the cowl or heavier batteries and/or motor.
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