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Old Apr 06, 2010, 08:37 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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P-51B model

Take a look at this graphic. Open to feedback, critique', and commentary.

These aircraft have longer nose so we have to watchout from making it nose heavy. I still have to place the aileron servo, but figure the battery has to go on top with a low mount wing.

Also could add a cavity for the esc and rx with a tape on cover cut into one of the outer nose laminations. This would clean up the appearance alot.

I am thinking to reshape the outer and intermediate lam's as well.

Ken
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 08:47 AM
treefinder
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SE MI
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I definitely like the cleaner appearance. Like the Parkflyer pete multi layer fuses. gpw made the inner layer mostly cut out with minimal webbing, on 3 layers. With 5, one can get really creative!
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 09:42 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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Now I am thinking with the internal space potential that I can cut a pocket for the aileron servo into the fuselage and mount it inverted but above the wing. I would like to keep the servo horn above the wing to maintain the natural differential that occurs there.

Ken
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 09:51 AM
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Chesterfield, MI USA
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I really like the P51 B. I have a plastic model of that on a shelf above my monitor here at work. - dave
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 11:59 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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Further inline engine model development

Here is what I am getting at. These would be very clean indeed.

The picture is of the Mustang fuselage with the access cover pulled away.

Feedback please! Might end up being too pretty to bash around. The small holes are for skewers used to keep parts aligned.

Ken
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Last edited by dz1sfb; Apr 06, 2010 at 01:10 PM. Reason: added pic
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 04:14 PM
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I really like the P-51B. It looks great. I think the electronics compartment is a really good idea but it may be harder for people who aren't good at cutting intricate details in foam like.

You could make a spinner by making 4-6 small circles(progressively getting larger) and glue them together. put it on a drill and sand it to shape. I made one that way a few days ago and it looks decent; not sure how to attach it though.
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 04:46 PM
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United States, MI, Saint Clair Shores
Joined Dec 2008
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Ken...again, very nice. I like it a lot. Very similar outline to the BF109 too. For me, the low wing just gives it the realistic look that is lost with a midwing.
How would the outer access cvr be fixed on. Magnets maybe? Or would it need a bit more hold for strength?

I am trying to see how the aileron control rods will exit the fuse also.

I like it a lot. I may even hold off finishing my 109 if you may do one of those. I have the center fuse & kf wing done but thats it. Although my wing has 1" dihedral in it too. .5" per side.

PS...I probably won't even use mine for combat. Would have to think too much on how to strengthen it. That will probably just be a fun sport flyer. I will definitely just print one of yours or buy a kit for combat.
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 06:41 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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Jimmy,
It would be possible to build these with dihedral. I would leave that to the builder though.
I think it would look better with a little dihedral and it would give it a little more roll stability.

The hatch could be taped or magnet held in place.

Ken
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 06:54 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Lenox, Michigan
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It looks great Ken!

I have my same concerns as before. With the fact that we are limiting these planes to a 12 amp 2s power system i think that it is going to be too heavy and wide to have good performance.

I keep thinking about my experiment with the 3DBatix Extra 330. I built one with single ply only carbon tube reinforcement and it flew great. Built a new one with triple ply in the front to the CG and a KF wing and moved all the hardware over. It was a total dog compared to the single ply.

I ended up building another single ply. I am not sure what the real problem was. The weight or the extra drag from the width. But the plane was much slower and didn't fly as well.

I would totally build a plane like this but put a nice big, fast motor on it on 3s.

As to the reinforcements needed for combat.... I don't see any need to do much more than add some strapping tape to the leading edges. If you have real battle damage from a collision that just makes it cooler, right?
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 08:25 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
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Attica, MI
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150 watts per lb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTalon View Post
It looks great Ken!

I have my same concerns as before. With the fact that we are limiting these planes to a 12 amp 2s power system i think that it is going to be too heavy and wide to have good performance.
...
Dennis,
These birds are not heavy or lacking performance. Power to weight ratio is 150 watts per pound. Thats no slouch. As far as the P-51B design goes, the amount of material is about the same as the other designs, maybe less. The motor is still wider than the fuselage at 5 laminations. This will be robust and light and nearly all your gear is concealed.

Still using strapping tape top and bottom of wing at back of KF step and packing tape on the LE of the wing.

Ken
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 08:38 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
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Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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FW-190 Plans

Here are the plans for the FW-190. Wingspan is 29-7/8" with 150 sq. in. wing area.

Ken
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Is it worth going to this extent?
Yes! Yes!

I love the clean looks. And, for combat (ruff service) I think the semi-profile fuse is a very good, strong approach. I assume you are watching the total square inches of foam being cut from the sheets and as long as that is reasonable I don't think weight will be much higher than the other designs. One desireable feature I would try to build in is a battery ejection mechanism for a nose in. If the foam in front of the battery was angled to direct the battery against the removable side panel then it would pop the panel and be ejected out of the fuse. Remember in a crash the battery is going to try and reach the ground! Give it a way to get there without busting up the forward fuse.



I hope you can bring a bunch of kits to the lunch table at Toledo. We need to get building!!!
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb View Post
Take a look at this graphic. Open to feedback, critique', and commentary.

These aircraft have longer nose so we have to watchout from making it nose heavy. I still have to place the aileron servo, but figure the battery has to go on top with a low mount wing.

Also could add a cavity for the esc and rx with a tape on cover cut into one of the outer nose laminations. This would clean up the appearance alot.

I am thinking to reshape the outer and intermediate lam's as well.

Ken
Love the laminating idea to help hide the motor. The aileron servo could go behind the wing to help the C.G. issue. May have to cut the inner ends of the Ailerons on a slight angle to clear pushrods....Just a thought.....
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 09:23 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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Okay, so far after getting the sq. in. of material out of the SketchUp files heres how they stack up.

P-64 = 421
Zero = 459
Bearcat = 480
Sea Fury = 494
P-51B = 538 sq. in.

Now the Sea Fury has 152 while all the others have 150 sq. in. of wing area.

I wieghed a 100 sq. in. sample of material and got 12.3g that calc's out to 14.4g difference from lightest to heaviest.

I believe we could get some more material out of the Mustang on the core laminations.

Ken
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 10:07 PM
SG Talon... Super Genius.
Lenox, Michigan
Joined Nov 2005
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Ken,

Have you considered setting up a table at the Toledo show?

I bet if you took 100 Combat Kits you would sell every one of them at $10 a piece.

Pay off that Iron Printer!

If it was me i would probably think about taking the rest of the week off and get a ton of them cut out!

Seriously I know i have been talking a lot about weight and stuff but either way they are great classic designs with a nice twist that i have not seen anyone use for these type of designs.

Make a D on that P-51 and i will take one.
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