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Old Mar 06, 2009, 07:29 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,676 Posts
Cool
**SEMFF WWII combat planes 31 designs with plans and video**

These models are the result of the desire to produce low cost, great looking models suitable for combat.


The following list are the design paremeters;[LIST=1][*]Profile WWII 3 channel RET or AET design from PBIII or Owens Corning Foamular material.[*]Wing area limited to 150 sq. in. with a KFm2 airfoil.[*]Blue Wonder 1700Kv 24g outrunner motor or its equivalent.[*]An optional motor to consider is a 2208-12 1800Kv motor or its equivalent. This motor is better suited to the short nosed long tail moment models like the BF-109 or the Spitfire where attaining the correct CoG is only possible with additional ballast.[*]2 - 9g servos. The HXT brand are very good units, or the Hobby King 10g analogs work well and are low cost.[*]10-15A ESC is more than sufficient for any task in these planes.[*]The battery needed for combat flying is a 800 - 900 mAh 2s unit. I cat attest to the Turnigy Nanotech 850 mAh units.[*]Recommended prop for this set up is either a GWS 7x6 or an APC 7x6E . The main idea here is to stay within a factor rule of 42 or less (that is the diameter x pitch in inches).[*]Total cost would be under $30 excluding esc rx.

Update 14-MAR-2012 - New foam available from www.modelplanefoam.com Check it out!

Update 29-MAR-2013 - Kits of these models are now up on my website at http://www.kenscadmodels.com/semff-w...mbat-kits.html

Link to SketchUp template file that I use to create these designs. Maybe you can also http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1658

These can easily be designed in Sketchup and scaled to get the wing area within spec. With the many 3 view images and color schemes available should be pretty easy to produce nice looking low cost models for this kind of activity.

This may have already been done, but thought I would pitch it to my buds here.

Edit 30-MAR-2010: All up weight came our just under 7 oz at 197g. That is right close to 150 watts per lb. as the BW motor with a 7x6 SF prop puts out 65 watts. We could call it the 150 cubed rule.

Edit 01-JAN-2011: Added a pictorial build guide for the VLF style builds here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1874

Ken

Adding a most recent build photo to highlight the excellent and original work of the subscribers to this thread. It will change as folks submit pictures of their work.
See more pictures of Goebelmj's rendition of the Komet.
.


P-64 plans and video are here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=80
Hawker Sea Fury plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=134
Mitsubishi A6M Zero plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=137
F8F Bearcat plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=138
FW-190 plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=161
BF-109 Ver. 3 plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=188
F4F Wildcat plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=233
P-51D Mustang plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=250
Mig 3 plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=268
P-51B Mustang plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=286
Spitfire plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=294
F6F Hellcat plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=369
DH Mosquito plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=453
Hawker Hurricane plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=701
P-47B Thunderbolt plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=937
P-39 Airacobra plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=999
P-40F Warhawk plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1104
SBD Dauntless plans here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1583
FW-190 VLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1689
F6F Hellcat VLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1810
Brewster F2A Buffalo http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1955
A6M-5 Zero VLF V4 Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1972
Chance Vought F4U Corsair VLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2395
Polikarpov i-16 Mosca PLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2485
TBM Avenger VLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2522
F8F Bearcat VLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2668
Yak 3U VLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2741
Yak 3 VLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2866
Me-163 Komet PLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2690
Republic P-47D VLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=3539
IAR-80 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=4152
Mitsubishi J2M3 Raiden PLF Style http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=4719
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 07:40 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
United States, MI, Saint Clair Shores
Joined Dec 2008
5,121 Posts
ahh more great fun planes to build!

Great idea Ken!
hrmmm, which bird to do first?

Ok RCGroups, I expect a full page of PDF's by dinner time this evening

Jimmy
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 08:50 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,676 Posts
Other designers contributions to this thread.

The intention of this thread is not a build thread per se, but a showcase/repository of designs meeting the above mentioned criteria.

Ken

In no particular order;

Curtiss SB2C Helldiver by Wilsonman http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=4327
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 08:53 AM
FPV Noob
Sailor Jerry's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Oct 2008
228 Posts
How about these?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724566
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 08:55 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
United States, MI, Saint Clair Shores
Joined Dec 2008
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ahhh, well I am very interested to see what everyone has been building thats for sure. This should be very neat indeed.

Jimmy
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 08:56 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
United States, MI, Saint Clair Shores
Joined Dec 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Jerry
Yeah I surf that thread all the time. Now lets see what peeps have that fits Ken's criteria above.
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 09:07 AM
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rcdadx2's Avatar
Clinton Twp., MI
Joined Oct 2007
30 Posts
Hey Ken,

This sounds like a LOT of FUN !!!
You can count me in. Im sure this could catch on big time.

Kamikaze !!! CHOP Chop Suey !!! lol....vince
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 09:16 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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Differences from the Printed Warbirds

I have seen the Printed Warbirds thread, but have not looked at it in detail. Many would probably work. I will look at them some more. Any idea what the wing area has been on these?

Ken

Edit: Okay breezed through a few posts there, and that is pretty much the concept, with the exception of size and carbon fiber. That is why I am limiting wing area to 150 sq. in.'s. Adding CF automatically adds $5 to the cost. Fiber strapping tape will be plenty sufficient if required.
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 09:26 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
United States, MI, Saint Clair Shores
Joined Dec 2008
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I wanna say all different size's. If memory serve's, seems to focus on taking 3 views & making profile foamies from that in general and alot of decorative printable overlays. Not a specific size. I could be wrong though. Been a while since I surfed over there.

Jimmy
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 01:41 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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Someone actually has kitted models in this size

This is budget RC's website. They produce models in the proportions that I am talking about here.
http://www.budgetrc.com/BuyPackage/BuyCombat.html


Here is a RCGroups review on this product. You can see by the spec's that it is just over the 150 sq. in. design criteria.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=932718

I was at the Propshop at lunchtime today and looked at these models. They are laser cut 1.9# EPP with all the plywood and CF components to make a complete model. All in all these are very nice kits at a very reasonable price ($35). They are AET aircraft.

But we are really on the cheap here and know that we can have this RTF for about that money. Plus it is just plane fun to design your own model.

Ken
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 04:21 PM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
United States, MI, Saint Clair Shores
Joined Dec 2008
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Yeah I looked at those very same ones & you are right, it is much more fun doing them yourself.

I would much rather spend that money on Don's motors & the other items needed like servo's & build their 35.00 kit out of 3.00 in foam and dowels.

Jimmy

Edit: Oh and don't even get me started on the Prop Shop! I could spend my whole day AND paycheck in that place.
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Old Mar 09, 2009, 11:02 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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Greetings today!

Like I said, this idea is not new. Found Gene Bond's Blu-51cd Simple Fun Fighter.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=389720

This gets very near what I am trying to do hear. He has 2 versions, one is 200 sq. in's and the other is 130 sq in. wing area. 30" wing span compared to 24" wingspan.

I believe that the 150 sq. in. rule would really be an optimum size for the C20. Shooting for good vertical performance with light wing loading.

Ken
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Old Mar 09, 2009, 11:43 AM
For us He died, in me He lives
Jimmy JFlyer's Avatar
United States, MI, Saint Clair Shores
Joined Dec 2008
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yeah I have the foam cut out for the 30" sitting at home. Then started the T1 & finished the BB30. Also built the SF & Shark Bait. Haven't picked up the Stang again yet, but once I have an inventory of enough electrics I'll get back to her.
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Old Mar 09, 2009, 11:48 AM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
dekan's Avatar
London, UK
Joined Nov 2006
5,398 Posts
Ken, I looked at the BugetR/C web page... I'm interested...But with the UK currency now getting lower and lower against the dollar..I won't be ordering a kit any time soon..

I have an Ele C20 or two spare....so I'm interested in something about 24"WS...
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Old Mar 09, 2009, 12:58 PM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,676 Posts
Hi Dekan,

With the 150 sq. in. parameter, they will vary by design depending on the aspect ratio. They should all fall somewhere in the 24"-28" ws range.

The C20 is like the Cox Babe .049 of the brushless world. Versatile, powerful, and cheap. I like'm.

As far as the Budget RC planes. Very nice high quality kits at a very good price. However, I like to do this as cheap as possible, as this is supposed to be discretionary income, and we are having less of that these days.

Do you have a design that you are going to do, or would like to see done?

I am looking at the P-64 which put most simply was a single seat fighter version of the AT-6, SNJ, Harvard aircraft for export. Neat story of this aircraft on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-64

I am thinking that in order to keep it simple and strong that I will move the wing up to the thrust centerline and the horizontal stab down to the same.


Inviting thoughts,
Ken
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