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Old Mar 05, 2009, 10:38 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,368 Posts
New Product
New Thunder Tiger Innovator RCHH Customer Support & Tec Thread

This is an Innovator MD 530 and EXP. Support Thead.
By: JohnW@RC Hobby Helicopter.com
and Xrayted.
The Two of us so far have had the most experience with these great Helis
For the Past 3 Weeks in the USA.
I have been going back and forth with Xrayted and ACE Tech support.
This will be an Informative Thread for new Innovator Owners to more easily understand the Heli and set up the PC Software.
Cheers, JohnW & Xrayted
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Old Mar 05, 2009, 10:59 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,368 Posts
I will also be supplying Dealer Support and Tech Support for both the MD-530 and EXP models. As well as Announcing parts arrival and option Parts arrival at the webstore.
Cheers Guys, JohnW
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Old Mar 05, 2009, 11:36 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,368 Posts
Innovator Set Up Proceedure

I will start things off with the PDF of the set up proceedures.
-JohnW
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Old Mar 05, 2009, 11:40 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,368 Posts
Nice Photos of the Innovator EXP and MD-530

And here are some nice photos of the Birds in action.
-JohnW
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 12:13 AM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2007
6,515 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnIn2SonAZ
This is an Innovator MD 530 and EXP. Support Thead.
By: JohnW@RC Hobby Helicopter.com
and Xrayted.
The Two of us so far have had the most experience with these great Helis
For the Past 3 Weeks in the USA.
I have been going back and forth with Xrayted and ACE Tech support.
This will be an Informative Thread for new Innovator Owners to more easily understand the Heli and set up the PC Software.
Cheers, JohnW & Xrayted
Ok here are the observations from my experience with the heli, understanding that others may have had different experiences and different outcomes. Hopefully others will chime in with suggestions so we can all learn from each other.

This heli is a great flyer and extremely stable. When trimmed properly and in calm conditions it can easily sustain a stable hover for many seconds at a time with no stick input. The HH gyro is rock solid.

Experience flyers will find the stock setup to be very weak with very little pitch and lift, very high expo settings and spongy controls (MD530). This can easily be changed via the PC software.


Installing the E manual
The E manual included with the heli is designed to work best with Internet Explorer7. If you are not running this version you may suffer from multiple boxes popping up when you try and use it. You will also need to download EON Viewer in order to correctly see and use the 3D CAD like images. You should be promted at some time to do this when trying to use the manual if your system doesnt have it.

When the E manual is opened you will see instructions for you browser settings. Dont skip these steps!! Make sure you settings are set correctly and the manual will read and operate properly.

Calibration

The E manual can be a little confusing when trying to understand the proper steps to calibrate the heli. Its very easy once you have done it a couple times.
Go to this link from ACE and click on the "Quick set up procedure" link and you will find a much more detailed PDF on the steps for doing this
http://www.acehobby.com/ace/TTR4720.htm


Installing the PC software

There have been a few of us that have had difficulty getting the PC software to install on XP systems. It seems that sometimes the install wizard will not appear properly and you may have to try many times to get it to work. Many others have reported using XP with no problems so Im not sure what the deciding factor is here. John and I both had issues on XP. Both our software installed on Vista 32 bit the first time with no issues at all. It would not load onto a Vista 64 bit OS.
Do NOT plug the supplied USB cable into your PC before being prompted to do so during the install. The dongle on the cable will start installing drivers into your PC before it is ready and you will have issues. When prompted to connect the cable, make sure it is connected while being plugged into the heli with the battery OUT of the heli.
The heli should beep a few times and then the red light on the heli will blink
The PC software has FMS software which will not install or run properly on Vista from the disc, but you can get it into Vista very easily by going to this link and following the instructions. You can download the FMS software and the required Vista "patch" directly from here rather than using the disc and when you launch the simulator from the PC software, you will see the MD530 as intended.
http://www.rctoys.com/pr/2008/03/06/...wto-fix-d3drm/

Batteries

There have been a few of us that have an issue with the heli just cutting off during flight for what appears to be no reason. Others have not had this issue at all. In my case it was both on battery packs that were new. This happened to me a total of five times. This had nothing to do with LVC in my case as it happend within a minute of flight and with plenty of pack voltage left. The problem has subsided so far now that my packs have had many flights on them.
I suggest that you "condition" your packs by flying low hovers for the first several flights limiting your flights to 4-5 minutes just to make sure you dont have the same issues.
John is currently working with ACE and TT on this issue.
EDIT: The issue of the heli cutting off in flight has been resolved by TT with a new ICS board now currently intstalled in all factory models. Anyone having these issues should contact ACE for more information.

Flying a governed heli

This heli comes defaulted in governor mode. The heli will try and maintain a pre set RPM depending on what flight mode you are using. The stock setup is 1500 RPM for mode "0" and 1700 RPM for mode "1"
You MUST raise the throttle trim high enough to keep power going to the rotors at all times. Do not fly with the trim at full low or if you lower the throttle stick too low during flight the motor will stall and will take a second or so to power back up.........the heli will fall out of the sky!

The MD530 has a noticeable tail "bouncing" when applying fore or aft cyclic and letting go of the sticks. This partly is coming from the very low stock headspeed. Increasing my RPM to about 1800 stopped most of this. I also believe that they are using very soft head dampers in this heli to soften the controls and stabilize the heli in a hover. I think this is also contributing to the bouncing as the heli is just dangling on the soft dampers under the rotor disc.
They make three dampers of varying stiffness for these helis.....black is the standard soft for the 530, Blue is for the EXP model and there is a 3D red. I will try some of the stiffer materials very soon to see if this makes the bounce go completely away

Using the PC software

When you open you PC software for the first time you will see two choices for data reading "Heli" or "File"
You can see the stock heli settings without it being connected by choosing the file button. There you will find three folders containing the default MD530 info (Normal-Hover) file as well as the 3D file and F3C files for the EXP model.
Double click them and they will populate the software.
The other option is to connect the heli to the USB first and then choose heli and the current ICS settings in the heli will populate.

If you connect the heli with the battery out and not powered you will see the control settings and be able to make adjustments. In order to see the battery ID, real time temp settings on the battery and ESC and other info such as max and min pitch travel set into the heli you will need to connect the heli with it powered up. Once you connect the USB and open the software the heli will stop beeping and its control functions will be disabled. You will be able to see your control settings change in the PC software in real time if you have the TX powered and move the sticks on the TX. You will also see you battery ID and batt and ESC temps in real time on the "helicopter status" tab (see fig 1)

Some suggested setting changes

Here are a few changes I made immediately after flying mine a few times.

1) The MD530 comes form the factory with the throttle hold (Autorotate) switch on the LT side of the TX disabled. You can turn this on by activating the auto rotate "action" button on the on the throttle curve and control setting tabs (see fig 2) This way you can safely check blade pitch without motor spool up and kill the rotors if you were to see a crash coming by flipping the switch.

2)The default setting in the heli has the ICS set so that the heli will not arm if it the battery pack does not have at least 12.2V in it. This can be annoying especially if you are trying to fly the heli for just a few seconds and then remove the battery pack to make adjustments and want to fly again. Within 1 minute the pack will be below this value and the heli will not arm even though the pack is at a very safe voltage for flying. You can lower this value a bit to avoid this problem on the "Alarm" tab under the "Voltage error" section. (see fig 3)

3)The heli warns you that LVC is coming very soon by pulsing the tail rotor as well as an audible alarm and the light on the heli flashes red. The problem is that all of the things can be very difficult to see or feel when high in the air.
You can change this setting to pulse the main rotor instead by a given amount by changing the setting to the "power down" setting on the Alarm tab rather than the yawing alarm (see fig 4). I have found that a 20% pulse is very good for me to notice but does not affect flight. I am using the default 10.6V under load for this warning and have found that this will leave 3.7V per cell resting voltage in my pack if I land when this occurs. Do NOT continue to fly past this point. Once LVC kicks in a couple minutes later the heli shuts down and will fall! If you are flying with the stock setup and time your flights to around 7 minutes you should be on the safe side and be fine. My experience is that the warning that LVC is coming starts at about 7-8 minutes of normal hovering and circuit flying with full LVC at about 9 minutes.

4)The governor will limit you to 1800 RPM max setting. This is the maximum RPM using the stock foam blades. If you change the blades to wood or CF you will need to make the change on the dropdown on the "Helicopter info setting" tab in order to use a higher head speed. (see fig 5)

Alarm warnings

If you connect the PC to the heli after flight and look at the "Alarm" tab you will see error codes and descriptions. We have no idea what these error codes mean at this time and I always get most of the same errors despite the data logger showing no issues. (see fig 6) The heli must be powered up while connected to see these warnings.
John is working with ACE and TT to get an explanation of these codes


Those are some of the big points form my end so far. I would be glad to share some of the more basic detailed settings im using such as expo and pitch curves for scale flight if anyone is interested.
EDIT: These baseline settings are in post #97
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Last edited by Xrayted; Oct 26, 2009 at 06:02 AM.
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 12:22 AM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,368 Posts
Great first post Xrayted!
Lot's of good stuff on there that you and i have spent Hours on the phone talking to each other about.
-JohnW
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 12:35 AM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,368 Posts
Also Compatable Operating Systems For the Innovator Software are as follows:
Windows XP
Windows Vista 32 Bit only.
Windows Vista 64 Bit is not compatable.
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 12:41 AM
Registered User
Henderson, NV & Lake Havasu City, AZ
Joined Feb 2009
226 Posts
WOW! Great info for the first time user as well as others with some Innovator stick time. I"m soakin' it up like a dry sponge!
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 07:43 AM
good till the first drop
lesodell's Avatar
michigan usa
Joined Jan 2005
607 Posts
great post
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 09:12 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,368 Posts
New Innovator EXP & MD530 Parts in stock At RCHOBBYHELICOPTER.COM

O.K. I Put up all the Innovator MD530 and EXP Parts that are In Stock on the WebSite.
Cheers, JohnW
www.rchobbyhelicopter.com
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 11:52 PM
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Joined Dec 2007
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Error code testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnIn2SonAZ
Great first post Xrayted!
Lot's of good stuff on there that you and i have spent Hours on the phone talking to each other about.
-JohnW
I was able to fly several packs today and think I have been able to sort out a couple of the error codes that appear in my software. At least I can see a pattern to them now.

Error code 9: Communication signal interception is there on every flight no matter if the heli is plugged in with the battery in or not. It seems to simply indicate that the heli is plugged into the PC. (Image 1)

Error code 12: Battery residual quantity fall only shows if you fly the heli until you get the yawing or main rotor pulsing warning that LVC is coming soon. It just seems to be an indication that this warning occured during flight and does not show if you stop flying before this happens. (Image 2)

Error code 10: Communication noise and code 15: battery ID disagreement also only seem to show when the yawing alarm is triggered. I still have no idea what this verbage is telling me and what this has to do with the voltage alarm? How hard would it have been for TT to simply give us written explanations of these codes? Bottom line is that if you stop flying before any built in alarms are triggered during flight, you will not get these errors when you plug into the PC.

There is also a "Memory Clear" icon in the data logger tab. Once you hit this you must wait patiently for about 20 seconds and then a confirmation of the data delete will appear. This clears the data gathered from the previous flight from the heli ICS (Image 3). Im not sure what purpose this serves as the heli automatically overwrites the data from the previous flight once it is flown again anyway.
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Last edited by Xrayted; Mar 07, 2009 at 08:46 AM.
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Old Mar 08, 2009, 12:24 AM
Registered User
Czech Republic, Europe
Joined Mar 2009
32 Posts
Exp: Ch6

There is a channel-6 pinout on Innovator EXP unit. I know that CH6 is used by autorotation function. But ... what happens if you disable autorotation in software ? It's possible to control some servo using ch6 ?
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Old Mar 08, 2009, 04:04 AM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,368 Posts
I'll have to look but i think the switch on the radio only works on disabling the Main Motor not an actual channel. But i'll check it out.
-JohnW
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Old Mar 08, 2009, 04:08 AM
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Va
Joined Dec 2006
48 Posts
Does this have heat sinks on the motor, or how does it stay cool or does it? Iv'e never had the body off mine, I was lucky because it will hover at half stick and I knowed to run lipos very short times when new.Xrayted I found a Timer at wal-mart 1 1/2 in" wide by 2 in" long app with min and sec up or down for 4.00 I used double sided tape to put it on the Radio at the top,I wish I could use my 2.4gz Fataba Radio with this heli ,be nice to put it on the same radio as my nitro's and Trex , I do have another 7c Fataba Radio if they come out with modules,,,,,Thanks eddr50
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Old Mar 08, 2009, 07:16 AM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,368 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robco
Does this have heat sinks on the motor, or how does it stay cool or does it? Iv'e never had the body off mine, I was lucky because it will hover at half stick and I knowed to run lipos very short times when new.Xrayted I found a Timer at wal-mart 1 1/2 in" wide by 2 in" long app with min and sec up or down for 4.00 I used double sided tape to put it on the Radio at the top,I wish I could use my 2.4gz Fataba Radio with this heli ,be nice to put it on the same radio as my nitro's and Trex , I do have another 7c Fataba Radio if they come out with modules,,,,,Thanks eddr50
Cool show us a photo and model number of the timer
thanks, JohnW
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