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Old Jul 06, 2009, 01:33 PM
RIP MC
fnnwizard's Avatar
United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Just a little update. I am just beginning to dial in the flight settings so I do not have enough time on the sticks to give any flight critique yet, but from the limited number of launches, I like it enough to persue a 2nd as backup.

Here's a graph of current draw (6.6v flight pack) on launch from regular USA FLS TD winch in light wind (5-7mph).
T
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 04:01 PM
Registered User
Hawaii
Joined Feb 2009
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Tuan,

Any updates on your Aspire? Performance, impressions, settings? Have you received Aspire #2 - RDS?
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Old Jan 04, 2010, 12:58 PM
Registered User
Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Sep 2004
89 Posts
Hey Tuan,
You can keep your Aspire...just send me that spare 4 mtr Explorer you have lying around!! I'll take it off your hands...

Enjoy your great toys! Happy New Year!

Chris Keller (still loving my Shadow!)
Colorado Springs, CO
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Old Jan 04, 2010, 04:49 PM
Martin
USA, CA, Piedmont
Joined May 2005
298 Posts
Aspire

Tuan is not the only one who had the stuck/floating ballast slug. It happened to me too. Made the trim flight interesting.
Definately the easiest plane ever to assemble. I used 378's for the flaps and ailerons and 3421 on the elevator and a 368bb on the flap. I'm at 118 and like everyone else getting great launches and easy landings.
Mart
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Old Jan 04, 2010, 07:14 PM
RIP MC
fnnwizard's Avatar
United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHVentus View Post
Tuan,

Any updates on your Aspire? Performance, impressions, settings? Have you received Aspire #2 - RDS?
Believe it or not, I haven't had enough time on the plane to give an honest performance opinion.

My main plane of choice has been the Xplorer 3.8m. If I compare the 2, the X is floatier, and the Aspire penetrates better stock. Of course that's probably due to the wing loading without any ballast.

The Aspire excels while in a thermal turn. It is extremely efficient in that aspect.

I think my Cg is 117-120. I cant remember. For the money it is the most complete plane you can get.

If the plane was more readily available back then so that I had two to begin with, I might have used it as a main plane. I like to have 2 of the same while competing for backup reason.

That's the reason I went with the Xplorer. After a season with the Xplorer, I still absolutely love mine. To me, it seems slightly more "nimble" even with the 3.8m span. But that may be due to the lighten tips using RDS . Who knows.

There's a couple new guys that have Aspires and there's another thread up.

You really can't go wrong with any of the top models.

Now that 4M X is still waiting for me and I hope to pick it up in a couple weeks or so. I should be home next week. I am in Chicago with California clothes... burrrrrr...

Thanks,
T
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Old Jan 04, 2010, 07:20 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Tuan-

I'm driving back from Port Hueneme Thursday (and actually tomorrow night) if you want me to pick that thing up for you. I could do that tonight or wednesday night....

Let me know.

T
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Old Jan 04, 2010, 07:23 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target View Post
Tuan-

I'm driving back from Port Hueneme Thursday (and actually tomorrow night) if you want me to pick that thing up for you. I could do that tonight or wednesday night....

Let me know.

T
Hi T, I'll call ya thanks!

Here's some writing about settings I got somewhere. I hope I won't get into trouble for posting this, but it was on the web somewhere. This is very helpful for people with Aspires. Written by Andreas Herrig.

Here ya go:



Andreas Herrig
The F3J airfoils AH141_3 and AH141_4 (used on the Aspire)
Having been asked for an F3J airfoil for a long time, problems in the progress with our Freestyler 3 slope glider and the presentation of the Pike Perfect gave motivation for following this request. Intention of Lubos Pazderka, probably still well known in the F3J scene, was to make a new plane with allround capabilities. It should follow a one-for-all concept, slightly focussing on weak conditions. Finally, the Aspire came out as a relatively large plane with 3.7 m span, which should provide extraordinary glide ratio and low sink rate.

Realizing that planes equipped with airfoils showing very peaky performance characteristics (e.g. HQW-2/8) cannot fully transform this aerodynamic potential into good flight performance in typical turbulent weather, a broader operating range was oriented to. Legendary airfoils like the MH32 and the SA7035 can offer excellent sink rates combined with good performance in moderately accelerated flight, under the boundary condition of sufficient relative thickness for fulfilling structural demands in launch. However, they are not perfectly adapted for the low wing loadings of < 30 g/dm˛ feasible with todays building techniques and suffer from losses due to unfavorably large laminar separation bubbles. A philosophy going more into the direction of DLG designs is necessary. In this area, again, Mark Drela set an extraordinary high benchmark with his sophisticated Supra design. This approach is followed by most modern gliders, especially the Pike Perfect, and as well the Aspire.

But compared to the AG40d or the MH32 for example the mid wing airfoil AH141_3 shows significantly increased maximum lift and offers more headroom at the upper end of the laminar drag bucket. This helps to 'survive' critical situations, when more maneuvering and centering tight thermals is necessary, this also when wing loading is not particularly low. In such tight thermals and in float conditions a positive flap setting of about 2-3 will be beneficial. However, compared to the Perfect, the cl-max increase was not driven very far, because this costs sink performance in the design lift range. Also the concept of changing airfoils in the outer wing to adjust to the lower Reynolds numbers is slightly different to the Perfect or the Supra. The outer wing airfoil was not purely designed for maximizing glide ratio in straight flight, but more weight was put on performance at higher lift coefficients, which should both improve circling and dead air floating. While the root airfoils relative thickness of 8.55% was determined mainly by structural reasons, especially with a large plane as the Aspire, the thickness of the outer airfoil is driven not so much by loads. To avoid excessive bubble drag calls for a reduction of relative thickness. But the need to achieve a broad operating range of lift coefficients sets some limits and the outer wings AH141_4 was designed quite conservatively. Climbing out in weak thermals easily often is more important than the last percent of straight line performance. So in the end, thickness of the AH141_4 was only slightly reduced to 8.3%, besides other measures to improve low Reynolds number behaviour.

Camber is varying between 2.4% and 2.3%, so is not particularily high. For fast flight back against the wind already with a negative flap setting of -1 the laminar drag bucket can be shifted to low lift coefficients. The Aspire airfoils will reward that with very good performance, which also allows to fly relatively low weight in windy conditions. In the zoom -2 should work well, to shift the polar down to zero lift. To summarize, the AH141_3,4 airfoils were designed as allround airfoils for F3J with a focus on reducing minimum sink rate in straight and especially circular flight over existing references. On the other hand glide ratio in wind was to be at least equal to the current intermediate designs. That much about the expectations, finally competition practice will show how well the concept works.

Andreas Herrig, 19. April 2007
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Old Jan 05, 2010, 02:51 AM
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard View Post
...For the money it is the most complete plane you can get.

If the plane was more readily available back then so that I had two to begin with, I might have used it as a main plane. I like to have 2 of the same while competing for backup reason.

That's the reason I went with the Xplorer...
For a competitor this is a valid point. Aspire is a low production plane, spares are allways on oder. My experience is that Lubos gives good support but we cannot help that NAN planes are more readily available.

I do not care so much about this problem. I have flown Aspire for three seasons, fourth season starting, and I think I will continue with it for some years in future... So having some spare planes is not an issue, this is a long term affair

BTW I also believe that staying with one plane type pays off. I am a working man, not having enough time trim and get familiar with one many different planes. Just one plane type for F3J and another for F3B...
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 04:41 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Finally got around to taking a closer look at Aspire # 2 which is a Lite version and was delivered to me by LJ a couple weeks ago.

The lite version is 66g (2.32oz) less in the fuse mostly due to not having ballast tube installed, but you still get the ballast tube and ballast set should you decide to use it.

Also, the center panel is 33g (1.16oz) less, but the the tips are a combined 26g (.92oz) heavier.

Here are the numbers:

Bare weight from factory:

Fuse w/canopy,
complete wiring harness,
plugs, & wing screws 404.9 g (14.28oz)

Center panel (with all wiring) 679.1g (23.95oz)
Left Tip 296.6g (10.46oz)
Right Tip 296.4g (10.46oz)
Joiner 1 22.7g (.80oz)
Joiner 2 22.4g (.79oz)
Stab w/ joiner 68.3g (2.41oz)

Total 1790.4g (63.15oz)

I was hoping to be less than 9oz/ft2 wing loading AUW on this model but it loooks like I will be closer to 9.2.

And yes, I will be RDS'ing the ailerons with servos in center panel to keep the tip weight to a minimum. I am sold on RDS at the very least for Ail.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 10:39 PM
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Joined Jan 2004
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So what is Light about the light version...

I like the colors....

sj
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 11:02 PM
Frank Stickle's Avatar
Centreville, VA
Joined Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by SmokinJoe101 View Post
So what is Light about the light version...

I like the colors....

sj
Apparently when you close the canopy the light stays on.
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Old Jan 27, 2010, 12:39 AM
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Tuomo's Avatar
Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard View Post
Finally got around to taking a closer look at Aspire # 2 which is a Lite version and was delivered to me by LJ a couple weeks ago.

The lite version is 66g (2.32oz) less in the fuse mostly due to not having ballast tube installed, but you still get the ballast tube and ballast set should you decide to use it.

Also, the center panel is 33g (1.16oz) less, but the the tips are a combined 26g (.92oz) heavier.

Here are the numbers:

Bare weight from factory:

Fuse w/canopy,
complete wiring harness,
plugs, & wing screws 404.9 g (14.28oz)

Center panel (with all wiring) 679.1g (23.95oz)
Left Tip 296.6g (10.46oz)
Right Tip 296.4g (10.46oz)
Joiner 1 22.7g (.80oz)
Joiner 2 22.4g (.79oz)
Stab w/ joiner 68.3g (2.41oz)

Total 1790.4g (63.15oz)

I was hoping to be less than 9oz/ft2 wing loading AUW on this model but it loooks like I will be closer to 9.2.
Those weights are typical. It will be light enough

I was also about to order a light version but had second thoughts. My normal layup C68 Aspires weight less than 2250g AUW, and the one with more beefy center panel is also less than 2300g. These are ligt enough to float well, I think. My first v-tail Aspire 3 seasons back was something like 2350g, and even that plane out-floated most of the competition.

My experience is that, that also in floating mode one has to fly with certain amount of air-speed and kinetic energy. Aspire is very easy flying at slow speeds, but when slown down too much, it starts to loos directional stability, making glide less efficient and compromising control response. This condition is typical to all slow speed flying, and it is made even worse, if one flyes so slow that there is no extra kinetic energy, to turn smoothly.

But surely the light version isi good thing in zero winds. It will float with smaller trailing edge camber and will turn quicker in slow speeds. However, in an ideal world, when building a lighter version it should be slimmed down from wing tips to reduce inertia, I think?

So after thinking a while, I changed my light version order to C68 double carbon. Lubos promised to build this to 2400g flying weight. I am not complaining a normal Aspire wing being soft, but making it stiffer is a benefit in normal and heavy conditions. And comparing wing loadings, a 2400g Aspire is still in the same range as 2250g Pike perfect...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard View Post
And yes, I will be RDS'ing the ailerons with servos in center panel to keep the tip weight to a minimum. I am sold on RDS at the very least for Ail.
This is interesting. I also think that rds will be future in F3J plane ailerons.

But how are you going to realise that setup? If servos are in the center panel, what happens to control linkages when wing tips pop off loose, as sometimes happen in hard landings?
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 12:08 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
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Well, I finally got a chance to put in some time on my Aspire this weekend and I have to say the Aspire can handle anything thrown at her...but then again, all those flying one know this already.

I was forced to use her in a backup situation after losing my main model in practice before the SWC.

The problem is I had a bad case of elevator centering/trim issues and couldn't get a good launch until Sunday, and landing mode was diving badly when inputting flaps (too much ele compensation), and speed, thermal settings were a little off every time.

Inspite of all of this, the Aspire handled the challenging air and sloppy pilot very, very well.

Now I am torn between which model should be my main flyer .

I've attached flight logs of day 1 contest to show how terrible I am .
flights were:
4min
6min
8min
10min
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 12:11 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
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After heading back to the hotel, I realize I had my tool box and backup servos still out at the field and decided to just swap existing rud and ele servos. I can live with inaccurate rud.

On Sunday, I got to the field and did one quick handlaunch to trim and a quick histart for confirm. Got a warning from CD over the intercom for the flight so I hadto stop and guess where the settings should be... .

Below are flight logs for second day. Would be nice to compare to other launches, as these by themselves are not really helpful other than to tell me the setups are improving.
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 12:28 PM
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
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fnnwizard, basically you have to play elevator trim all the time - on steer with elevator... It depends a little on personal style, but there are no "special" elevator trim settings for that ultimate floating glide (that you can use only oin very calm weather).

In normal weather, just let your Aspire move around with neutral trailing edge. Add 2mm camber when you want to slow down. However, I do normal thermalling very often with neutral trailing edge. More speed -> better control -> more efficient climb.

Aspire can be slown down very much without actually stalling it. But this bad for performance
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