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Old Feb 27, 2009, 10:45 PM
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You've got some serious Demons there Mr. Wizard. Finish the plane stock and spend the extra hours playing with your kids. Win-win.

Clay
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Old Feb 28, 2009, 01:59 AM
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You're just thinking of OVERKILL!! Build it like the designer intended--you can't go wrong. This IS a TD plane--not F3B!
T
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Old Feb 28, 2009, 02:07 AM
Challenge is rewarding
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San Diego, CA
Joined Aug 2004
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If I hadn't bought mine already built, I would have put RDS in it. Why not, it makes it better. Fly your Explorer while you take the extra time to build it.

Tuan, you know you can do it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard
OK Somebody stop me...

I got the Ele and Rud installed and was going to do the Ail but I keep wanting to do RDS on them.

I know, I know, why... when wires and plugs are already installed and the fairing for the horn is already there...

I just think that moving the ounce or so inboard yields a nimbler rolling plane... how much nimbler? I don't know...

Arhhhggg... Help.

T
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Old Feb 28, 2009, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djklein21
If I hadn't bought mine already built, I would have put RDS in it. Why not, it makes it better. Fly your Explorer while you take the extra time to build it.

Tuan, you know you can do it.
I would have to agree with Dave & Tuan on rds.

Once I installed them, anything thing else seems like a big step backwards.
dead tight and easy to set up.

Not that the other ways won't work fine for TD, but some people, including myself, if there's a better way, we want it.
Just okay don't cut it with some folks.

dave www.rc-builds.com
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 12:27 PM
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Canada
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RDS for Floater,
next step will be the retracable hook and in flight CG adjuster.
R&D already started.


Cheers
Thomas

PS but a simple Sloper will do
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 01:08 PM
4 wheels move a body; 2 a soul
Saratoga, Ca
Joined Feb 2004
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On a thermal ship like the Aspire, is there an actual number on how much improvement
one can expect, RDS vs non? or is it just...."it will fly better w/em?" Will it be enough for most pilots to even notice? Also how about ease of service especially on flaps and in a contest enviornment. Just wondering.
Walter
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 01:21 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Yeah, I am still debating. Got planes to fly so I guess I am not in a hurry anymore to get the Aspire going. RDS would be great for TD also.

The biggest reasons for me to do RDS is being able to move weight away from tips. I think the RDS I did on the Xplorer contributed to the very little Ail deflection needed for roll control. Will find out for sure once Clay gets his X going.

Tight linkage setup. RDS linkagaes are very tight resulting in minimal blowback on flaps and ail. I have yet to see any standard horn/ clevis setup that has has less than 1.5mm of play on flaps, so how does one really know what amount of camber/reflex is dialed in? And, after a season, the play only gets worst.

Linear throws. On ail with conventional Horn/Clevis its not too hard to get linear throws with expo, but on flaps no way.

A neat side benefit to RDS Drela's way is no ail plugs to mess with while putting on tips.

If you spent an afternoon making RDS pockets, one size will fit just about every plane, have all the rods already bent, there's not that much work compared to conventional horn/clevis.

I guess I just sold myself on the RDS for Aspire.

I wonder if we can get Larry to get Lubos to make a wing clean without the horns, fairings and servo cutout for the ail. Larry?

If I do RDS on this plane i will RDS both ail and Flaps.
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 02:05 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glderguy
On a thermal ship like the Aspire, is there an actual number on how much improvement
one can expect, RDS vs non? or is it just...."it will fly better w/em?" Will it be enough for most pilots to even notice? Also how about ease of service especially on flaps and in a contest enviornment. Just wondering.
Walter
Hi Walter,
I've paid attention at the contests where landings are sometimes very hard.
I have notice flaps and or flap servos to fail when flaps are fully deployed and a hard dork causes either the servo gears to strip and or the brass flap horns to snap due to the momentum of the flaps coming forward on such landings.

Other times is when the flaps are still deployed and dragging on the landing surface again cause one of the above.

Would you believe I started to sand down the nylon servo horns' edges on flaps slightly hoping that that would give before the gears? I haven't a clue how much to sand them down but I would say I sanded about 1/4 of the material off and if I ever strip flap servo gears I will know that amount was not enough. Or if that part gives in a rough landing and servos still good I know it was just right. It is still solid in that area as I check it often to make sure.

Once I am confident about the amount of nylon to sand away, I'll post it and probably get a lot of negative feedback, but if it can save a set of gears and not give in normal launches it would be worth the post.

Now, I will say that with RDS on flaps if you are fully deployed you will not strip a servo but perhaps maybe bend the rod, in which case replacing the rod/yoke setup for flaps would be easy. If you break more than that on a correct RDS setup, like say the pockets, then most likely you would do more damage on a conventional setup and it would not be an easy field repair anyways.

Ever break a brass horn on flaps? I did once? Had to dremel out the insert and decided to go with g10 horns for both sides.

I'll say the RDS is more robust overall if done right.
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 02:24 PM
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USA, WA, Spokane
Joined Nov 2003
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Hello Tuan,

After seeing your outstandning RDS install on the Xplorer I'd have to say go for it!

I'm looking forward to your flight comparison between the Aspire and Xplorer.

Best regards,
Jim
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 03:03 PM
4 wheels move a body; 2 a soul
Saratoga, Ca
Joined Feb 2004
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Thanks Tuan. Yes Ive seen people strip servos/break horns/etc landing hard w/flaps deployed. Personally, can honestly say I have never stripped any servo on any control surface on a TD ship, but then again I pull flaps up before touch down and usually dont stuff a plane...will sacrifice points over breaking 2K moldie any day. Now landing an 11lb unlimited slope racer, thats another story, gone thru a "few" servos there! Anyway, I say then go full RDS on the Aspire, fly it a season of SC2, if all goes well for you then heck, I will probably give em a try myself. Please keep us posted on how it goes.
Walter
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 04:47 PM
Eggcellent...
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United States, CA, Orange
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard
I have notice flaps and or flap servos to fail when flaps are fully deployed and a hard dork causes either the servo gears to strip and or the brass flap horns to snap due to the momentum of the flaps coming forward on such landings.

Other times is when the flaps are still deployed and dragging on the landing surface again cause one of the above.
You're not supposed to land with flaps deployed anyways...

Tom
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 07:47 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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I've only had one flap incidence where I strip the servo gears and that was when I first started soaring and it was at Visalia 2005? That was with a Hitec thin wing servo though.

The other time it went into failsafe because frequency conflict, and landed with full flaps in a bunch of tall weeds and broke the flap horn. Horn was aluminum though. Since then I have never had a flap issue other than play. I do pull flaps up right before landing.

At SWC after the midair and losing sight of the X, I was forced to keep full flaps and only return them to neutral when I was pretty sure plane had landed. Thought for sure to break the servo arms or worse, but no damage to anything. The landing was on a sloped grated metal roof. I will never figure that one out.

Anyway, been doing yardwork so havent had time to do anything more to the Aspire. will get pics of what I did get done though it is a very straight forward build.
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Old Mar 02, 2009, 12:09 AM
or F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
Joined Jun 2007
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Hey Tuan, for what its worth. The tips on the Aspire are quite light as they are, and having flown one stock, I can say that it was very nimble in roll, even with 12' 2" of span. RDS is cool for a number of reasons. If you do go for RDS on this one, I would say just install it where the current servo holes are. You really don't need to go through the effort to move the weight closer in toward the fuse. Lubos' layup is spot on, and he has kept the tips light.

No matter what you do, you will like the way it flys, and you shouldn't give yourself any heartburn about RDS or NO RDS on this ship.

Enjoy

Mike Smith
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Old Mar 02, 2009, 12:41 AM
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United States, CA, Midway City
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Hi Mike, thank you much for first hand experience info! I have emailed Larry to see if there is a way to get a clean wing for RDS'ing. Larry will forward that email to Lubos. If a miracle happens and I can get a clean wing to RDS, I will build this one stock and get ones with clean wing to RDs with.

By clean, I mean no horns and no fairings in the Aspire wings. Heck, I'll even take one with no servo cutouts.

I would love to have someone like you fly an RDS Aspire, setup your way and see if you can tell if there's any difference. Hey that would be one of my goals.

I have been wondering lately with 2 piece wings, why they dont just do carbon rods sufficiently supported and bellcrank on ail and keep ail servo near center. Hmmm.

I'll put thison the backburner for now... at least for a week or so .

Thanks!
Tuan
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Old Mar 02, 2009, 12:15 PM
or F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
Joined Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard
Hi Mike, thank you much for first hand experience info! I have emailed Larry to see if there is a way to get a clean wing for RDS'ing. Larry will forward that email to Lubos. If a miracle happens and I can get a clean wing to RDS, I will build this one stock and get ones with clean wing to RDs with.

By clean, I mean no horns and no fairings in the Aspire wings. Heck, I'll even take one with no servo cutouts.

I would love to have someone like you fly an RDS Aspire, setup your way and see if you can tell if there's any difference. Hey that would be one of my goals.

I have been wondering lately with 2 piece wings, why they dont just do carbon rods sufficiently supported and bellcrank on ail and keep ail servo near center. Hmmm.

I'll put thison the backburner for now... at least for a week or so .

Thanks!
Tuan
I'd love to fly one with RDS Tuan, but honestly I would not be able to tell you after flying one that the reason it flys the way it does, "better" or "worse" was due to RDS. The gains attained by the RDS system are only apparent at high speeds, and this glider was not designed for high speeds. The reasons to do RDS on an Aspire type of glider are not for increased glider performance in my opinion. They are for ease of control surface set up, and travel matching since there is no geometry issues like that of pushrod systems. And as long as you can get very tight, precise pockets and wipers with solid, flex free mechanical connections, RDS is great.

Anyone that says they can tell the difference between an RDS equiped glider and a normally configured Aspire in TD has a big placebo effect influencing his judgement. The diffences would be nearly impossible to detect from the RC pilots perspective.

RDS gains are best realized in gliders that are performing higher speed tasks such as F3B speed, F3B Distance, F3F racing, and even DS(except that DS requires a super solid linkage, so maybe not a good choice here dpending on the specific mechanics for the glider)

But, hey, I still wanna fly it.

Cheers Tuan.

Mike
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