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Old Apr 24, 2010, 02:11 PM
Detail Freak
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I would think that any handling test would be damn near impossible to get results for, since setup and personal preference play such an important role in that.....

What strikes me as interesting, is that Tom Watson, a long time Pike flyer, found the Aspire to his liking immediately. To me, that says something positive about the Aspire, although I have never flown one.

I have to wonder if all the current planes in the right hands, aren't equally capable, yet subtlely different in terms of handling? If so, then it seems that finding one that matches YOUR flying style is just a matter of test flying several buddies planes, and picking the one that matches your own style best....
Seems like a tough but fun task to have assigned to you.

Larry, isn't it true from what I read, that AH designed the Aspire to be not necessarily the highest performance it could have been, but rather, he aimed to have the plane be a slightly lower performance, but to have very good performance over a much broader range? Sounded to me that he wanted the planes perfomance to be less critical of pilot errors, i.e., more friendly to less than stellar control inputs from the pilot, and still able to perform.

If so, that sounds like something I could use, and likely almost anyone could also.

R,
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 04:51 PM
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Does this site have the bandwidth to handle all these egos in one thread?




CH
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 06:56 PM
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It's like audiophiles who worry about equipment frequency responses the human ear can't even hear......seriously.

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Old Apr 24, 2010, 07:08 PM
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Is this the thread where we exchange info about a glider called

"ASPIRE"


Peter
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 08:00 PM
Eggcellent...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tappet View Post
It's like audiophiles who worry about equipment frequency responses the human ear can't even hear.
Hey now...the audio guys have gone back to vacuum-tube equipment. Whaddaya think - a VTTX? Think of the precision. We could spend all day tweaking pots to a fare-thee-well.

Tom
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tewatson View Post
Hey now...the audio guys have gone back to vacuum-tube equipment. Whaddaya think - a VTTX? Think of the precision. We could spend all day tweaking pots to a fare-thee-well.

Tom
I'm an acoustic musician... why would I care?
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 10:42 PM
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I'll put my new Libelle up against anything you guys wants fly anytime, but I do need a towplane to get to altitude.
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 11:04 PM
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Old Apr 25, 2010, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by s2000 View Post
I'll put my new Libelle up against anything you guys wants fly anytime, but I do need a towplane to get to altitude.
Why not just fly that window cleaner thing with a propeller on it!!!
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Old Apr 25, 2010, 01:36 AM
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target View Post
I would think that any handling test would be damn near impossible to get results for, since setup and personal preference play such an important role in that.....

What strikes me as interesting, is that Tom Watson, a long time Pike flyer, found the Aspire to his liking immediately. To me, that says something positive about the Aspire, although I have never flown one.

I have to wonder if all the current planes in the right hands, aren't equally capable, yet subtlely different in terms of handling? If so, then it seems that finding one that matches YOUR flying style is just a matter of test flying several buddies planes, and picking the one that matches your own style best....
Seems like a tough but fun task to have assigned to you.
Cannot comment on handling, it is so personal and depends also on trim. However, after flying many years with Aspire against Perfects, I think it is safe to say that Perfect launches little better but Aspire has little better distance flight performance. The difference get bigger if it is windy and planes are not ballasted on the light side.

I also think that Aspire floats slightly better than Perfect. This is partly compensated with Perfect having a real light version available. On the other hand, Aspire C68 is absolutely the best floating allround F3J plane available.

Thirdly I am allways amazed how well Aspire flyes with water on wing. Flying F3J in rain is not normal, but it is nice to know that you can beat other by 1 minute if conditions gets really bad.

About the only thing I want to critizise in my Aspires ist that x-tail elevator aerodynamics is not quite what it should be. Now I have turbulated elevators on all my Aspires, and I feel it is ok even with the neutral CG I use. But still I remember fondly the first Aspire I had, it was v-tail version. V-tail Aspire was more stable and easy to fly... The only compromice was little less powerfull rudder. If the v-tail fuse would be structurally as good as x-tail (2-piece, light etc.), I would still fly v-tail only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by target View Post
Larry, isn't it true from what I read, that AH designed the Aspire to be not necessarily the highest performance it could have been, but rather, he aimed to have the plane be a slightly lower performance, but to have very good performance over a much broader range? Sounded to me that he wanted the planes perfomance to be less critical of pilot errors, i.e., more friendly to less than stellar control inputs from the pilot, and still able to perform.
This is quote from www.f3j.cz

Quote:
Andreas Herrig

The F3J airfoils AH141_3 and AH141_4 (used on the Aspire)



Having been asked for an F3J airfoil for a long time, problems in the progress with our Freestyler 3 slope glider and the presentation of the Pike Perfect gave motivation for following this request. Intention of Lubos Pazderka, probably still well known in the F3J scene, was to make a new plane with allround capabilities. It should follow a one-for-all concept, slightly focussing on weak conditions. Finally, the Aspire came out as a relatively large plane with 3.7 m span, which should provide extraordinary glide ratio and low sink rate.



Realizing that planes equipped with airfoils showing very peaky performance characteristics (e.g. HQW-2/8) cannot fully transform this aerodynamic potential into good flight performance in typical turbulent weather, a broader operating range was oriented to. Legendary airfoils like the MH32 and the SA7035 can offer excellent sink rates combined with good performance in moderately accelerated flight, under the boundary condition of sufficient relative thickness for fulfilling structural demands in launch. However, they are not perfectly adapted for the low wing loadings of < 30 g/dm˛ feasible with todays building techniques and suffer from losses due to unfavorably large laminar separation bubbles. A philosophy going more into the direction of DLG designs is necessary. In this area, again, Mark Drela set an extraordinary high benchmark with his sophisticated Supra design. This approach is followed by most modern gliders, especially the Pike Perfect, and as well the Aspire.


But compared to the AG40d or the MH32 for example the mid wing airfoil AH141_3 shows significantly increased maximum lift and offers more headroom at the upper end of the laminar drag bucket. This helps to 'survive' critical situations, when more maneuvering and centering tight thermals is necessary, this also when wing loading is not particularly low. In such tight thermals and in float conditions a positive flap setting of about 2-3 will be beneficial. However, compared to the Perfect, the cl-max increase was not driven very far, because this costs sink performance in the design lift range. Also the concept of changing airfoils in the outer wing to adjust to the lower Reynolds numbers is slightly different to the Perfect or the Supra. The outer wing airfoil was not purely designed for maximizing glide ratio in straight flight, but more weight was put on performance at higher lift coefficients, which should both improve circling and dead air floating. While the root airfoils relative thickness of 8.55% was determined mainly by structural reasons, especially with a large plane as the Aspire, the thickness of the outer airfoil is driven not so much by loads. To avoid excessive bubble drag calls for a reduction of relative thickness. But the need to achieve a broad operating range of lift coefficients sets some limits and the outer wings AH141_4 was designed quite conservatively. Climbing out in weak thermals easily often is more important than the last percent of straight line performance. So in the end, thickness of the AH141_4 was only slightly reduced to 8.3%, besides other measures to improve low Reynolds number behaviour.

Camber is varying between 2.4% and 2.3%, so is not particularily high. For fast flight back against the wind already with a negative flap setting of -1 the laminar drag bucket can be shifted to low lift coefficients. The Aspire airfoils will reward that with very good performance, which also allows to fly relatively low weight in windy conditions. In the zoom -2 should work well, to shift the polar down to zero lift. To summarize, the AH141_3,4 airfoils were designed as allround airfoils for F3J with a focus on reducing minimum sink rate in straight and especially circular flight over existing references. On the other hand glide ratio in wind was to be at least equal to the current intermediate designs. That much about the expectations, finally competition practice will show how well the concept works.

Andreas Herrig, 19. April 2007
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Old Apr 25, 2010, 05:51 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
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That's the document that I was referring to, thanks.

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Old May 04, 2010, 08:28 AM
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fly off

when and where are you guys going to hold the big fly-off...stop talking and start flying...
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Old May 04, 2010, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2000 View Post
I'll put my new Libelle up against anything you guys wants fly anytime, but I do need a towplane to get to altitude.
I have 5 bucks on the Libelle

sj
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Old May 05, 2010, 09:35 AM
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Latest Shipment of Aspires is on the way to San Diego. I am ready to accept orders for 12 Aspires due here at end of July. Please contact me at Ljolly@aol.com to hold your postition and color scheme in next shipment. Euro is sliding $1650.00 gets you a Pazderka- Herrig designed Aspire complete with wiring harness installed, and ballast. Add servos and RX and battery and fly 3 hours later. Ready for fly-off LJ
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Old May 05, 2010, 10:40 AM
in the air
in the air
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I have one built ready to rock with skeg just add battery
a beautiful plane 9+out of 10
1900.00 usd + shipping
will meet living near SAC CA
thanks
Markhkb40@hotmail.com
MB
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