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Old Feb 24, 2009, 10:46 PM
Have Wings, will Fly!
dont's Avatar
Perth, WA, "The land of OZ"
Joined Jul 2004
943 Posts
Help!
DLG, Landing or Crashing!

Guys, a little help please.

I have completed my Supergee and have maidened it last night, my question and quest for knowledge is in slowing down on landing.

How should I program my DLG for stopping / slowing at landing?

Do I utilise deep flaps with down elevator or spoilers with up elevator or what mix to get it to ultimatly stop when I need to?

any advice would be great!


BTW the maiden went well, bit of inbuilt left turn I need to sort out but the SG flew well, good trim.

thanks

Don
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Old Feb 24, 2009, 10:55 PM
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mars's Avatar
San Francisco, CA
Joined Jan 2002
577 Posts
Congrats!

I have not flown my SGII yet but hope to have it done by early next week. I am interested in the answer to this very same question. I have seen pictures of Dr. Drela catching his plane with flaps down at +/-40 degrees as show on the plan.

I believe that spoilers do not slow a plane but just take away its lift. I use them on my slope soarer to get it to come down.

I think flaps tend to lower the stall speed and allow you to keep control of the plane at a lower landing - or catching - speed.

I would try flaps down first as a controlled slow flight is what you are after.

Mars
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Old Feb 24, 2009, 11:09 PM
Original Bloody Spadder
proppy jon's Avatar
phoenix
Joined Jul 2004
1,257 Posts
down flaps down elevator on throttle stick that what u want
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Old Feb 24, 2009, 11:16 PM
Launch high. Fly low.
United States, CA, Lake Elsinore
Joined Aug 2003
4,201 Posts
Flaps down as much as you can. Usually 45 degrees down is plenty to slow the plane to a crawl. Mix in some down elevator. This will vary from plane to plane so test it at altitude. What you want to see is that when deploying flaps your plane takes a nose-down attitude. Not too much that it dives!!! Just a little 'bow. Thank you very much'.

One important thing to remember and do!!! With flaps deployed you will lose aileron control!!! Make sure to mix in plenty of rudder.

Again, there's no magic numbers for these mixes so test them at altitude.

Hth.
Jun
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Old Feb 24, 2009, 11:32 PM
Have Wings, will Fly!
dont's Avatar
Perth, WA, "The land of OZ"
Joined Jul 2004
943 Posts
Hi Mars
I was wondering if you had maidened yet, hope it goes well...You will love it, Ive only done 8 launches yesterday but "I like it"
I too use spoilers on my slope planes, to get down, hence my question for the DLG, thanks


Proppy
I guess its on the throttle stick so you have a constant adjustment of the flap / elevator travel!
If on the throttle stick seems like may need some way to only have it on only at landing, perhaps a landing flight phase mixed in, does that sound right?


jcats
Thanks for the input, flaps down and down elevator, sounds like I need to start with a little and experiment.


Guys thanks for the input, just what I needed


Don
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 01:10 AM
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AndrewBurns's Avatar
Joined Jul 2008
659 Posts
Yeah on my radio (DX6i) I have a switch controlling launch/thermal mode which makes small corrections to the trailing edge and elevator and a landing mode switch. During launch/thermal input to the throttle stick does nothing, however when in landing mode the throttle stick controls the flaperons and the elevator compensation. On my DLG I get about 45 degree down flaps and I've mixed in just enough down elevator to have it come at me slightly nose down, full flaps will likely be too much in most cases and it removes aileron control authority so you'll need to learn to modulate your flaps to give a good landing.
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 07:47 AM
Have Wings, will Fly!
dont's Avatar
Perth, WA, "The land of OZ"
Joined Jul 2004
943 Posts
Thanks Andrew, I get the drift, I should be able to program something similar into my Evo9

Don
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 08:34 AM
Don't worry about it!
j.m.'s Avatar
Raleigh NC
Joined May 2008
1,368 Posts
Flaps allow the aircraft to decsend at a steeper angle without gaining airspeed.

Spoilers kill the lift.

Or so I've been taught...

Either of them can be used to slow the plane down if deployed at enough of an angle.
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 08:56 AM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,307 Posts
Don,

Congrats on your Super Gee. I finished my version of it about 3 weeks ago. It is a great plane.

I think you'll find that with a head wind that you can catch it with just the "float" or camber setting, but pulling a lot of flap (down to 45 degrees) really decreases the forward speed and increases the sink rate. I sometimes land (catch it) with say 20-30 degrees flap. If I'm trying to get down fast I'll pull the full flap.

As others have pointed out, your ailerons will become pretty uneffective at 45% flap, but you can still steer with rudder.

Also, and this is a thing I got confused on, the camber settings on the SG wing are started with the wing in reflex. And I guess I hope I have this right, but a friend of mine has told me this and I think he knows what he is doing. This would mean that if you say bagged the SG wing and then never cut the flapperons, the thing would be in reflex setting all the time. So when I first started I had messed it up thinking that the natural wing was normal mode (best L/D) and reflex was 2mm above that. In reality the natural wing setting is reflex, then float 2 degrees (I measured it out and to me it looks like 2 mm) above that and then float 5 mm below the natural wing setting. So if I have it right, float is actually quite a bit below the natural setting of the wing. I guess what I'm trying to say is for the longest time I did a lot of flying in reflex and thought the thing was constantly screaming around the field.

Oh, and bear in mind my comments are from like 3 weeks experience with the thing, but then I think I have probably been in your shoes more recently than a lot of folks who have been flying these things longer.

Ryan
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 10:32 AM
Lots of Air Play
United States, CT, Coventry
Joined Dec 2008
844 Posts
Radio Setup info

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewBurns
Yeah on my radio (DX6i) I have a switch controlling launch/thermal mode which makes small corrections to the trailing edge and elevator and a landing mode switch. During launch/thermal input to the throttle stick does nothing, however when in landing mode the throttle stick controls the flaperons and the elevator compensation. On my DLG I get about 45 degree down flaps and I've mixed in just enough down elevator to have it come at me slightly nose down, full flaps will likely be too much in most cases and it removes aileron control authority so you'll need to learn to modulate your flaps to give a good landing.

I have an Dragonfly DLG plane in latter stages of build, will be flying with DX6i Tx, am very interested to hear if you have set up 3 modes of camber (launch, fast glide, thermal modes) and if so how are you setting these up on switches and throttle stick etc. I am interested to hear as much detail as you can give. My plane has dual servos on ailerons, servo on rudder and servo on elevator.
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 11:01 AM
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JasonJones's Avatar
Surprise, Arizona
Joined Jan 2007
759 Posts
Do a search for the EVO settings for Supergee II. program them in. It will give you all your flight phases, launch presets, and flaps with elevator etc.. some minor tweaks for your particular plane etc, but its pretty dead on.

I have about 35deg flap on the throttle stick with elevator mixed in, and I also have a "landing" phase on switch as well that gives me 45-47ded of flaps and a little more elevator than normal flaps on throttle. I use this for diving out of the sky at slow speed and tail wind landings when I can't avoid them. It slows it down much faster, I only get about 5-10ft of flight before it wants to drop out of the sky completely, but really slows down "right now".
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 12:12 PM
a.k.a. Bob Parks
Glendale, AZ
Joined Jun 2008
2,384 Posts
I have been flying my Lighthawk for a few weeks, and after talking to and watching the Chandler Bow guys, Have been able to improve my catches. They come in quite low and upwind, right towards the pilot, and at the last 20 ft or so hit the flaps, which raises the plane to catching height.

I have been successful in catching my plane most of the time using that method, after much practice. I would go out after work, and just launch and practice landing setups and timings. No lift, so it was up, circle, setup for landing and try to time the catch. It would use a talking timer set for a minute. Maybe 70% catches after the first couple of sessions.

Bob
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 01:11 PM
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Thermaln2's Avatar
Reno Nevada
Joined Oct 2007
2,648 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwoebke
Also, and this is a thing I got confused on, the camber settings on the SG wing are started with the wing in reflex. And I guess I hope I have this right, but a friend of mine has told me this and I think he knows what he is doing. This would mean that if you say bagged the SG wing and then never cut the flapperons, the thing would be in reflex setting all the time. So when I first started I had messed it up thinking that the natural wing was normal mode (best L/D) and reflex was 2mm above that. In reality the natural wing setting is reflex, then float 2 degrees (I measured it out and to me it looks like 2 mm) above that and then float 5 mm below the natural wing setting. So if I have it right, float is actually quite a bit below the natural setting of the wing. I guess what I'm trying to say is for the longest time I did a lot of flying in reflex and thought the thing was constantly screaming around the field.

Ryan
Ryan,

I now feel that I am not alone in this regard. I flew an Encore wing withhe flaps set equal to the bagged alignment for what seems like a few years thinkingit was the right thing. Tha AG45 series airfoil coordinates are reflexed, rather the bottom is flat so that you can just place the bagged wings on the bench and weighting them down, versus having to put the wings in the core beds during the cure.

I am considering another drela airfoil, different than the AG45 -47 series, but cooordinates are only given for the normal undercambered section. the undercamber is not much, so I might just bagge the wing flat, as if it were a AG45 airfoil. But, I think that I might be trying for better LD, and take the hit on the drag for the reflexed upwind run.

As for Flaps, I like ALOT of flap, and my current SG-type wing does not slow down enough with the current RDS setup. I like a plane that I can point at myself at a 45 degree angles and fly it directly into my hand. I like planes where the flaps are more high lift drag type versus just slowing. It seems the way I have the plane set up, the AG45 just does not want to slow down enough for my liking.

Many European design are connecting the flap to a top horn, whihc permits the flap to be delefected more. I would like to know if the RDS can get closer to say 70 degrees, versus 55. The RDS limits seem to beb a problem on my install.
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 04:18 PM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,307 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermaln2
Tha AG45 series airfoil coordinates are reflexed, rather the bottom is flat so that you can just place the bagged wings on the bench and weighting them down, versus having to put the wings in the core beds during the cure.
Yeah, I figured I'd mention that where the reflex goes thing because even though I had read and thought I understood that part about the airfoil being reflexed to allow bagging it flat, it still did not click in my head that when setting up reflext that it was in normal airfoil position and not 2 mm above the normal position.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermaln2
As for Flaps, I like ALOT of flap, and my current SG-type wing does not slow down enough with the current RDS setup. I like a plane that I can point at myself at a 45 degree angles and fly it directly into my hand. I like planes where the flaps are more high lift drag type versus just slowing. It seems the way I have the plane set up, the AG45 just does not want to slow down enough for my liking.
For me, I think I'm happy with the amount of flap I have and how it affects slowing the plane and catching, but then I'm still pretty new with 4 servo DLGs and don't catch it on every flight yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermaln2
I would like to know if the RDS can get closer to say 70 degrees, versus 55. The RDS limits seem to beb a problem on my install.
I know that Harley's Genie plans indicate a flap RDS wiper arm with a 90 degree bend in it and he says that you can get close to 90 degrees and still have some up for aileron type activity from the flaps. From an actual practical perspective, I built an Aegea wing and I think I was getting closer to 60 degree flap deployment yet still enough up flap for the aileron to flap activity.

Ryan
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 06:52 PM
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Joined Jul 2008
659 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thistle2311
I have an Dragonfly DLG plane in latter stages of build, will be flying with DX6i Tx, am very interested to hear if you have set up 3 modes of camber (launch, fast glide, thermal modes) and if so how are you setting these up on switches and throttle stick etc. I am interested to hear as much detail as you can give. My plane has dual servos on ailerons, servo on rudder and servo on elevator.
Ok for the DX6i:

- Enable 'dual aileron' mode, this allows your two servo wing to have flaperons.
- The flaperons will be controlled by the 'flaps' switch on your radio, set the glider up in launch mode and when you hit the flaps switch have it set up for thermal camber.
- For your first mix, mix throttle stick to flaps 0% up 100% down enabled by a switch (I use the gear switch), this is your landing mode. I use 0% up and 100% down so that the throttle stick only starts moving the flaps down when it goes bellow half travel but that's optional.
- For your second mix, mix throttle stick to elevator and active (always on). This is elevator compensation for your flaps.

So a standard flight for me would be start with flaps switch and gear switch off, this gives me launch mode (reflexed wing and a tiny amount of up elevator). As soon as the glider reaches the apex of the launch and I push over into flight I flip the flaps switch down, this takes away the launch preset elevator and increases my camber for thermal flight. As I'm coming in to land I flip the gear switch on which mixes flaps to throttle so I can slow down and catch. Don't forget to turn the switches back off again before you launch! Launching in thermal camber is no fun at all ( )

As you can see it's not a true flight mode system, as is the limitation of the DX6i, I intend to buy a DSX9 at some point soon, but it does the job. The only thing I really wish I had is some way to have a cruise setting as right now I'm either in launch reflex with elevator preset or thermal camber, which isn't the best for competition flying.
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