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Old Mar 04, 2009, 08:58 AM
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Foamenator's Avatar
Northern Nevada
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Steve... You are building up quite Tuffy there. You have the "Tuffy-Super Hauler".
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Old Mar 04, 2009, 05:05 PM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamenator
Steve... You are building up quite Tuffy there. You have the "Tuffy-Super Hauler".
Hey Bob,

I just weighed her with the Replica-cam installed and KFm3 wing and I got 730g or over 25 ounces. With about 460 or so square inches of effective wing she's over 8 oz per sqft in AP mode.

It's getting day light and I'm on coffee number one I'm not sure she'll fly. We'll see! I think I'll put the LG back on and just really load her up.

Steve.
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Old Mar 04, 2009, 07:38 PM
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Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
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Crash damage report.

Moving the control rods out on the horns was a bad idea. Not enough response and I added off set right. With a pusher it should be left. Major lesson is that pushers are much safer for spectators than tractor planes.
RC: Tuffy Crash (0 min 20 sec)

Very short.
The old man with the cane wasn't hurt at all but the wing was destroyed. Fuselage suffered a bit but that's repairable. I'm planning a bamboo hunt for later and will do another fuselage with a much lighter boom. KFm4 wing on hold and may be converted to a KFm2 for Tuffy #2. I'll stay RET for now.

I needed a good flight after the crash so I flew the Q Trainer. She sure is sweet. No vid coz of camera battery probs. Still it was like therapy after almost hitting the old man. It was his cane that did the damage but I'm glad he was not hurt. Tractor prop could have been another story. I like the postive features of the pusher and I like plank flying wings. Now figuring how to combine them........

Steve.
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Old Mar 04, 2009, 07:45 PM
Geaux Saints
Hopalong X's Avatar
Grafton, Il
Joined Nov 2007
1,913 Posts
Sorry you messed her up again.

If I had the $$ for the shipping I'd send you a bundle of FFF and some blu-core monobloc material.

THEN turn you loose with some plans!

You could have your own Air Force!
Mike
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Old Mar 04, 2009, 08:42 PM
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Northern Nevada
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Ouch Steve... It looked like it was going smoothly. Don't give up on her. How many props have you saved so far? LOL I'm in double digits for sure.

Let's see.... two bucks per prop x 10 saved= 20.00 LOL I need to show these stats to wifey as proof I need to fly more.
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Old Mar 05, 2009, 08:53 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamenator
Ouch Steve... It looked like it was going smoothly. Don't give up on her. How many props have you saved so far? LOL I'm in double digits for sure.

Let's see.... two bucks per prop x 10 saved= 20.00 LOL I need to show these stats to wifey as proof I need to fly more.
Hey Bob,
I don't give up that easy. I'm thinking KFm2 with flaperons on a new fuse.

Edna did the shopping this morning and while she was gone I sent my helper, Tata out for some short bamboo sticks. He got me a few that were pretty straight so I'll be using one for a new Tuffy boom How do you think she'd do with a Vee tail? Just curious... BTW the bamboo stick is more than an ounce lighter than the stick and it feels stiffer too.

Speaking of props, I need to put a small order together for some more 10 x 4.7s and a few 8 x 6s too

Mike... Most planes I have had at one time is 4. Now it's two until I rebuild the Tuffy. Re: Sending foam... Thanks for the thought. I'm used to the cheapo stuff I have available here and have my building down to an art-form. Not sure I could handle a build with the good stuff....

A sore on my foot got infected and I'm on meds for that. They keep me unmotivated and a bit dinged out. Maybe I'll feel more up to repairs tomorrow.
Steve.
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Old Mar 05, 2009, 01:29 PM
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Northern Nevada
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Steve.... I'm sure the Tuffy would fly fine with a "V" tail if the proportions were right. I was thinking about trying one with twin tails ala Ercoupe or B-25. I could fix the rudder and use ailerons only or go with four channels.

Knocking an oz. off the boom will really help with the c.g.
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Old Mar 05, 2009, 05:48 PM
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Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamenator
Steve.... I'm sure the Tuffy would fly fine with a "V" tail if the proportions were right. I was thinking about trying one with twin tails ala Ercoupe or B-25. I could fix the rudder and use ailerons only or go with four channels.

Knocking an oz. off the boom will really help with the c.g.
Or go with an A tail and polyhedral for RET. The low boom look isn't visually appealing to me. The Wing-Thing and T-Hawk look like they fly OK in videos but they just look a bit "ungainly" to me.

Today's plan is to fly the Q Trainer this morning and then spend Friday in the garage. I'm still thinking about where I want to go with the Tuffy. I'm more and more committed to the pusher types though.

Steve.
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 07:32 PM
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In flight CG Analysis

The following is in this months "Model Airplane News Onine":


In-Flight Check for Center of Gravity (CG)
Test-fly your model on a calm day; wind can affect flight reactions and control response. Climb to a safe altitude, and trim the model for straight and level flight at about 1/2 throttle.

Test 1. Throttle back slightly, lower the nose and put the model into a shallow, 30-degree dive. Center the controls, and see what happens. If the model maintains a straight, shallow dive, the plane's CG is very close to where it should be. If the nose rises quickly, the model is nose-heavy. If the model noses downward into a steeper dive, then it's tail-heavy.

Test 2. Roll the model into a 90-degree banked turn, and note what it does. If the nose drops, add tail weight. If the tail drops, add nose weight.

Test 3. Roll the model into sustained inverted flight. If you have to use a lot of down-elevator to hold level flight (more than 10 percent), you must add tail weight. If you have to add up-elevator to hold level inverted flight, you must add nose weight.

Land the model, and adjust the CG appropriately, adding weight in small increments. Check the balance again by performing the same maneuvers.

From the spiral-bound Flightline Essentials: the go-to guide for RC pilots, onsale at www.rcstore.com.
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 10:22 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,112 Posts
Here is a similar discussion of CG location that I found when was trying to figure out where the CG should be on a glider.

http://www.polecataero.com/handlaunchu/cg-location

It has some good discussion of the pros and cons of having the CG a little aft or a little forward of the neutral CG location.

And it also discusses the effects thermal lifts will have on the plane when it is trimmed for negative, neutral, and positive stability.

Here is the figure that sums it all up and is worth a thousand words:

http://polecataero.com/uploads/cg_trim.pdf

Jack
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Old Mar 07, 2009, 12:38 PM
AMA 14680
Foamenator's Avatar
Northern Nevada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes
Here is a similar discussion of CG location that I found when was trying to figure out where the CG should be on a glider.

http://www.polecataero.com/handlaunchu/cg-location

It has some good discussion of the pros and cons of having the CG a little aft or a little forward of the neutral CG location.

And it also discusses the effects thermal lifts will have on the plane when it is trimmed for negative, neutral, and positive stability.

Here is the figure that sums it all up and is worth a thousand words:

http://polecataero.com/uploads/cg_trim.pdf

Jack
Jack... thanks for those links. I firmly believe most flying problems with new build a caused by problems determining the correct CG> Bob
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Old Mar 12, 2009, 04:38 AM
Bill Dewey
Renton highlands above Lake Washington
Joined Jul 2008
59 Posts
Have a few questions

Foamenator

Is the plane you had in your original video built to the plan specs.
and if so how do you use a 10in. prop on it, unless its clipped? I sure would like to see it flying without the on purpose crashes. Did Tony build it and fly it?

I am thinking about building it if I could see more evidence of success of the
build as specified. I circulated a thread last month looking for a pusher like the
Easy Star. I only got three referrals. This could be close if it flies well.

Can you explain pusher installation a little? did you reverse the motor wires or
use special props etc. how did you achieve it?

If this thread is to survive it needs some content.

Thanks Bill Dewey
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Old Mar 12, 2009, 07:29 AM
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Foamenator's Avatar
Northern Nevada
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dewey
Foamenator

Is the plane you had in your original video built to the plan specs.
and if so how do you use a 10in. prop on it, unless its clipped? I sure would like to see it flying without the on purpose crashes. Did Tony build it and fly it?

I am thinking about building it if I could see more evidence of success of the
build as specified. I circulated a thread last month looking for a pusher like the
Easy Star. I only got three referrals. This could be close if it flies well.

Can you explain pusher installation a little? did you reverse the motor wires or
use special props etc. how did you achieve it?

If this thread is to survive it needs some content.

Thanks Bill Dewey
Hi Bill.... Let's see if I can help you with your content. The only dimension I had for the first Tuffy was the original drawing which called out a 42" wing span. I already had a 42" wing with ailerons and rounded wing tips so I used it rather than build a new one. I used IsiPlot software to extrapolate the rest of the measurements I used to build the original.

I use a 2408-21 with a standard 8040 Prop. The motor and prop are reversed so they are pulling normally with lots of power.

To my knowledge, Tony has not built a "Tuffy" due to his heavy work load

The video camera I have is busted so I haven't been able to make a decent video of the plane as it is now.

I built a second set of wings from Elmer's poster board with the red and green paper left on.That is the in all the later pictures and the wing I've been using for many many flights.

As noted in the first post, Tony just recently provided us with a complete set of drawings as posted there. Here again, to my knowledge, no one has built a Tuffy to those exact specifications as they have only been published a few days.

Since I'm on a limited budget, I scrounge most of the materials I use. As a consequence the fuselages are made from the beady styrofoam packing material which is awfully weak structurally. After the second fuse I cut out three fuses at the same time and Tuffy is now on her second of those. If I had some 2" thick Blucor or some other decent thick density foam that wouldn't be necessary.

As it is now, I can completely replace the fuse with a new junk fuse in about 30 minutes since it is already cut out. Everything fits in it's original place and in fact is the original equipment.

(1) I clean the old beadies off the tail boom and hot glue it into the new fuse keeping everything straight and square.

(2) Unwrap electrical tape from servos and receiver and re-wrap with clean tape. Melt holes in styro for servos and hot glue servos in place.

(3) Hot glue bamboo and thin ply reinforcements for wing and landing gear in place.

(4) Attach wings, lg, etc with rubber bands, check balance and alignment and fly.

In dozens of flights I've only broken one prop after hitting a light pole and kicking the wing back into the prop and prop hitting the wire used to hold the aileron in place (on the original wing).

I consider it an excellent aileron trainer allowing you to start out on rudder only if you choose. It is more difficult to fly than a Blubaby because it is bigger and faster.

Hope this info helps. Let me know any specifics, and I'll do the best I can to help out. Bob
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Last edited by Foamenator; Mar 12, 2009 at 07:35 AM.
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Old Mar 12, 2009, 08:40 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,112 Posts
"..As noted in the first post, Tony just recently provided us with a complete set of drawings as posted there. Here again, to my knowledge, no one has built a Tuffy to those exact specifications as they have only been published a few days..."

Bob,

The plan in post #1 is dated 9/23/2008, that is the plan you're referring to as recent, right? There are no more recent plans than that?

I did the ScaleAndTile thing on that the other day and started putting the templates together. I'm going to build that to the plan.

I sort of toyed with making the boom out of a CF arrow shaft or maybe a pair of them side by side because I happen to have those. But I'll build it to the plans otherwise. I'm going to to the 1" dihedral wing and with ailerons.

I've got this dynamite Atlas 1240 Kv 98 gram motor that I intend to use on it. That baby will pull 22-28 Amps, I was getting 200 Watts out of it at with a 4S A123 pack at about 10V.

The Tuffy will lend itself to using A123 with plenty of fuselage space for the battery and if a want give a camera a ride or something later, there should be capacity for that too.

I'll try to post some details as I proceed, this is another blue baby we need to get in the air and prove it's qualities.

Jack
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Old Mar 12, 2009, 08:57 AM
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Foamenator's Avatar
Northern Nevada
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes
"..As noted in the first post, Tony just recently provided us with a complete set of drawings as posted there. Here again, to my knowledge, no one has built a Tuffy to those exact specifications as they have only been published a few days..."

Bob,

The plan in post #1 is dated 9/23/2008, that is the plan you're referring to as recent, right? There are no more recent plans than that?

I did the ScaleAndTile thing on that the other day and started putting the templates together. I'm going to build that to the plan.

I sort of toyed with making the boom out of a CF arrow shaft or maybe a pair of them side by side because I happen to have those. But I'll build it to the plans otherwise. I'm going to to the 1" dihedral wing and with ailerons.

I've got this dynamite Atlas 1240 Kv 98 gram motor that I intend to use on it. That baby will pull 22-28 Amps, I was getting 200 Watts out of it at with a 4S A123 pack at about 10V.

The Tuffy will lend itself to using A123 with plenty of fuselage space for the battery and if a want give a camera a ride or something later, there should be capacity for that too.

I'll try to post some details as I proceed, this is another blue baby we need to get in the air and prove it's qualities.

Jack
Jack.... I posted the complete plans set on March 4th in the first post. They are the four PDF's there now. Tony even included a 3D monobloc drawing. NOTE TO EVERYONE; THE PARTS LIST IS ONLY 12 PAGES. The tiled version is 54 pages.

I really like this plane. It is a great flyer and is a logical trainer for someone who wants a bigger plane that is super easy to build. Not to mention the opportunities for modification.

My wing has 1" dihedral with ailerons and it works great. The arrow shafts should work well. In all the abuse I've given this plane, I've yet to break the boom which is 1/2" balsa.
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Last edited by Foamenator; Mar 12, 2009 at 09:19 AM.
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