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Old Mar 01, 2009, 12:41 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
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Originally Posted by Foamenator
Steve..... I feel your pain. It's a good thing building is so much fun Here is a pic from one of my outings a few weeks ago. Both have been repaired and are flying again.
To borrow from Mike: "Ouch!!! Ouch!!!"

Is that a Hawker Typhoon? I want to build a stand off Spit but a Spit with a KFm2... ??? ...

Cross yer fingers for my maiden tomorrow am.

Steve.
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 04:50 AM
Good glue is evil
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hey guys thanks for the pics of the bottom of the fuz, much appreciated
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybernaught
To borrow from Mike: "Ouch!!! Ouch!!!"

Is that a Hawker Typhoon? I want to build a stand off Spit but a Spit with a KFm2... ??? ...

Cross yer fingers for my maiden tomorrow am.

Steve.
Keeping fingers toes, eyes crossed. I'm betting Tuffy flys great.

The planes in the pic are the prototype P-40 and the Cute Little Fokker with a new wing without ailerons.
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by brucej
hey guys thanks for the pics of the bottom of the fuz, much appreciated
No problem.... Let us know anytime we can help. Good luck on your build and maiden. Bob
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 10:29 AM
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Grafton, Il
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Cybernaught

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Here I don't have that fancy foriegn stuff. I might have found a thin bamboo piece that would have worked better but my stick is around2 ounces.
Quote

You mean we don't have access to the fancy bamboo over here.
Everything I find in long bamboo is crooked.
A dogs leg is straighter than the bamboo.
I think all the straight bamboo is made into $500+ Fly fishing poles on this side of the "lake."

Mike
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 02:00 PM
I'm not flying backwards!
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Oshawa, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
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Actually, if memory serves, I believe the plans call for the tail boom to be made from a Walmart carbon fiber arrow shaft.

Hi Guys! I'm back again. Bob, oh Bob, you are an amazing man. The Tuffy looks great and once again, thank you for bringing another on to life. You're a hero!

Tony
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Old Mar 01, 2009, 04:46 PM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
Actually, if memory serves, I believe the plans call for the tail boom to be made from a Walmart carbon fiber arrow shaft.

Hi Guys! I'm back again. Bob, oh Bob, you are an amazing man. The Tuffy looks great and once again, thank you for bringing another on to life. You're a hero!

Tony
Hey Tony,

Nice to see you here. Thanks for the info. We have 3, so-called, Malls in Tagbilaran. In the US you'd call it a strip center with aircon. There are some sporting goods supplies but but no arrow shafts that I've seen. I thought about using a cut off piece of a cheap fishing rod. You guessed it!!! No fishing rods.

Mike, Youre right about bamboo being crooked as a cheap politician. Same here but I have the luxury of walking the woods and eventually getting a piece that's close to straight.

Right now the sun is coming up and I need coffee. My Turnigy motor is making noises like a cheap coffee grinder but I'll try it when I can see on my Sandy Runway. I need to see if the tide is out. I think my Tuffy is tail heavy and I'll be lucky if it lifts off. I will video and hope the camera behaves.

Time for coffee now. tkr,
Steve.

Edit: 5:53am Mondy 3/2/09.
it's almost completely light and the wind just hit bending the coco trees on the beach. It usualy doesn't start until after 8am.
Hell I might try it anyway. Taxi testing with a short lift off???? We'll see.

Edit: 10:57 3/2/09
Flew the Tuffy but it was windy and the plane was tail heavy. I made a half circuit and landed badly but no damage was sustaned. I have lowered the forward gear and added nose weight. I plan to test again today if possible. Here's the video:

Tuffy Maiden (1 min 26 sec)

I think it will be OK.
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Old Mar 02, 2009, 06:40 PM
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Bohol Philippines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
Actually, if memory serves, I believe the plans call for the tail boom to be made from a Walmart carbon fiber arrow shaft.

Hi Guys! I'm back again. Bob, oh Bob, you are an amazing man. The Tuffy looks great and once again, thank you for bringing another on to life. You're a hero!

Tony
Hey Bob &Tony,
I flew her again today and she's squirely. I'll try to upload the vid. What is the angle for the motor? I have about 2 deg up at the moment. Mine is about 620g AUW. Thats around 22 oz. She's almost 7 oz per sqft. and the B21 seems marginal at best. My CG is at about 30 % chord. I'm not sure where to adjust trim. This is my first pusher and I'd like to work it out so she flies well.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
Steve.
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Old Mar 02, 2009, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Cybernaught
Hey Bob &Tony,
I flew her again today and she's squirely. I'll try to upload the vid. What is the angle for the motor? I have about 2 deg up at the moment. Mine is about 620g AUW. Thats around 22 oz. She's almost 7 oz per sqft. and the B21 seems marginal at best. My CG is at about 30 % chord. I'm not sure where to adjust trim. This is my first pusher and I'd like to work it out so she flies well.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
Steve.
Steve.... 2 degrees is what I have and I think thats right. Judging from the video I think you cg is off quite a bit. With the normal KFm cg range of 30-38% I think you need to move the cg in more rearward. My Tuffy is at 40%.

What do you have your control throws set at? The elevator is really sensitive and the rudder is very effective. You might want to back them down a bit to avoid over control.

What prop are you using on the BP21? I use a 8040 with a 1000 mah battery. I'm gettting almost 1 to 1 thrust to thrust ratio.

She looks good in the air and you have already saved two props. So there you go.... Good job. Bob
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Old Mar 02, 2009, 11:29 PM
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Oshawa, Canada
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From the video, I think Bob's call is right on the money. She looks like she's having CG issues.

Tony
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Old Mar 02, 2009, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamenator
Steve.... 2 degrees is what I have and I think thats right. Judging from the video I think you cg is off quite a bit. With the normal KFm cg range of 30-38% I think you need to move the cg in more rearward. My Tuffy is at 40%.

What do you have your control throws set at? The elevator is really sensitive and the rudder is very effective. You might want to back them down a bit to avoid over control.

What prop are you using on the BP21? I use a 8040 with a 1000 mah battery. I'm gettting almost 1 to 1 thrust to thrust ratio.

She looks good in the air and you have already saved two props. So there you go.... Good job. Bob

OK Bob,
Major mods today. I cut off the nose and got rid of the added (balance) weight. Made new nose longer by about 2.5". Lost the landing gear and with the battery all the way to the front she balances at 3 7/8" from the leading edge. feels tail heavy to me but I'll try it that way. I have the Tower Pro 2408-21 with a 10 x 4.7 slowfly prop. Bat at this point is a 2s 1300mah 20c; we're talking 125 watts or thereabout with a static current of around 17A. The weight all up went from 22 oz to 19 oz. so the wing loading is down from 7oz/sqft to about 6oz / sqft.

Ii have some 3s 1000mah batteries that came on Monday that weigh a bit more and may help the balance. I could drop to an 8 x 4 prop and see how that works.

We'll see how it goes tomorrow when there is a low tide and little wind.
Pics below!...
Steve.

Too windy and I have high tide at the moment. I'd fly the Q Trainer in this but not the Tuffy until I'm sure I have it right.
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 12:12 AM
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Steve... based on the last pics, I'd add a little more weight in the nose for your first flights. Slightly nose heavy will make her more stable and less responsive for the first flights. YOu are keeping me glued to the screen with anticipation. Good luck. Bob
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 06:04 AM
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Bohol Philippines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamenator
Steve... based on the last pics, I'd add a little more weight in the nose for your first flights. Slightly nose heavy will make her more stable and less responsive for the first flights. YOu are keeping me glued to the screen with anticipation. Good luck. Bob
Hi Bob,

I did add about 1/2 oz to the nose after the first flight. I figured she was a bit tail heavy. If you look at the turn after takeoff in the first vid it seems like the tail is hanging a bit low. Anyway I managed to get this morning's flight uploaded to Vimeo so here it is. Still not right but I think it flew a bit better than yesterday.
RC: Tuffy's flight #2 (0 min 58 sec)


Here's a pic of the possible next mod.

Steve.
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 09:22 AM
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Whaaa...Hooo Steve, Tuffy has improved 200% imho. I noticed you don't have a tail skid. Is there a wire one not visible? If not I would add one that raises the tail about an inch. This would probably enable you to go back to your smaller wheels. Your wheels are adding a lot of drag, eventhough they may not weigh much.

Try dialing in some downtrim to help eliminate the zoom affect and help lift your tail off the ground. If that helps, I would also add a little more down thrust. A couple washers under the lower bolts on the engine mount should do it.

How does the rudder feel now? It looks sensative to me.

Thanks for the video's . It's fun to watch your progress.. Good luck on your next flights. Bob
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 04:18 PM
Onward through the fog.
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Bohol Philippines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamenator
Whaaa...Hooo Steve, Tuffy has improved 200% imho. I noticed you don't have a tail skid. Is there a wire one not visible? If not I would add one that raises the tail about an inch. This would probably enable you to go back to your smaller wheels. Your wheels are adding a lot of drag, eventhough they may not weigh much.

Try dialing in some downtrim to help eliminate the zoom affect and help lift your tail off the ground. If that helps, I would also add a little more down thrust. A couple washers under the lower bolts on the engine mount should do it.

How does the rudder feel now? It looks sensative to me.

Thanks for the video's . It's fun to watch your progress.. Good luck on your next flights. Bob
Hey Bob,

It's 5am and i'm on Coffee #2. Waiting for it to get light so I can try Tuffy's mods out. There is a short bamboo skid but I think it's more for show than function. We are going to the provincial capital today for shopping and some banking business. If I get in a decent flight beforehand and a reasonable video I'll put it on my memory stick and upload from the Cybercafe in Tagbilaran. I want to put some bamboo skewers on the nose to reinforce it and a bit of fiberglass reinforced tape too. I'll do a test flight first though just in case I need mods.

Are you familiar with the FC 2822 motor? I have two of them and they may be more powerful that the 2408-21 I'm using now. I wan't to try one on the Tuffy and I'll put the LG back on after testing when I use it for a AP platform, if that works out.

Do you have any pictures of your Tuffy? I seem to be the only one posting on this thread?

Thanks for the comments and encouragement. Once I get her stable and have a few flights under my belt I'll take her up in the wind a bit too. KFm2 wings seem to penetrate pretty well.

Rudder control seems OK. I'd rather have a bit too much than not enough. I think if I move the CG forward a touch it will tend to desensitize the controls a bit. Another thing I like about the pusher config is that if you accidentally hit someone there is less chance of cutting them up with the prop. Seems to me it's a bit safer in that respect.

Steve

Edit 3/4/09 @ 6:30.

Had a short flight with Tuffy. You are right I need to adjust the controls. Too much throw. Nose weight you suggested helped. The tail is so small compared to the oversized wing that and the tail moment is short so I'm surprized at the leverage the rudder and elevator have. Landing was unexpected and rough. I got in trouble getting close to the trees and it's very easy to overcorrect. Just a crack in the wing and the plugs to the motor pulled out, disconnecting it. Quick 1 minute fix. She's going to be a good flyer but she handles a bit differently than my other planes. Adjusting CG and the throws will help.

Video to come.

Steve.
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