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Old Mar 22, 2009, 07:27 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,108 Posts
"..Too windy today for a maiden flight..."

Probably a smart decision. It takes a *lot* of self control to do it, but I've gone to the flying place once or twice and came home without flying because of the winds I found. That was with maidens or untested changes. And I've had a couple of real bad flying sessions when I ignored it a few anyway.

Jack
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Old Mar 22, 2009, 07:54 PM
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tomclifton's Avatar
Joined Mar 2009
88 Posts
Sanity Check needed...

I have been lurking here a couple of days - looking for something to build and the Tuffy looks about right. Not to leave something good (and proven) alone... Any reason why it can't be scaled up 50% For about a 60" wingspread? Thinking of some carbon tubing in the wings to stiffen, and also to make the attachment to the fuse, power with a pair of counter rotating outrunner 2409-12t's with 6x3 or 6x4 props and dual carbon tubes to hold the tail on. Does it sound plausible - or should I think this through again?

Ultimately, I'm looking for a slow and stable plane for video and electronics...

Tom in St. Louis
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Old Mar 22, 2009, 08:24 PM
Foam Fighter and a Bloody Mick
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Hermann, MO
Joined Jul 2008
393 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomclifton
I have been lurking here a couple of days - looking for something to build and the Tuffy looks about right. Not to leave something good (and proven) alone... Any reason why it can't be scaled up 50% For about a 60" wingspread? Thinking of some carbon tubing in the wings to stiffen, and also to make the attachment to the fuse, power with a pair of counter rotating outrunner 2409-12t's with 6x3 or 6x4 props and dual carbon tubes to hold the tail on. Does it sound plausible - or should I think this through again?

Ultimately, I'm looking for a slow and stable plane for video and electronics...

Tom in St. Louis
Easy there Tom, that may be a bit much. I got broke in on the AP1 with a 60" wing and a 2409-18t. I have no doubt that would be near ideal. You might maybe want to run the 2409-12t for a little more "oomph" if you had a really heavy camera. I never had significant payload in mine, I just used it as a trainer, and had a blast with it. Also, it is already designed to carry cameras etc. My biggest concern with with the set up you mentioned, would be extremely reduced battery life. JHTitan ran a 12T and I ran an 18t when we started flying together, last July. His planes could always rocket out of the area faster, but always ran out of juice a little sooner as well. You don't need a ton of power for a slow stable plane. You will want a little dihedral in the wing though.

Tim, in Hermann, about an hour and a half west of St. Louis.
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Old Mar 22, 2009, 09:10 PM
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Joined Mar 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grenadapult
Easy there Tom, that may be a bit much.
The motor was stated because that's what is in a lot of Easy Star's - and yes, it does suck the amps when wide open... There is a certain nostalgia with dual props, and they fix some problems, and make some others. One thing I'm hoping is that a pair of 6" props run slower might be a bit quiter, and if (when) I need some kick to get out of trouble (often) the power will be there.

TP 2408-21's are a bit less expensive, and the ESC being smaller (18a instead of 32a) will be less costly...

You mentioned more dihedral for stability - is that a suggestion to increase what is there, or just a general statement?

Tom in St. Louis
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Old Mar 22, 2009, 10:20 PM
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Northern Nevada
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomclifton
The motor was stated because that's what is in a lot of Easy Star's - and yes, it does suck the amps when wide open... There is a certain nostalgia with dual props, and they fix some problems, and make some others. One thing I'm hoping is that a pair of 6" props run slower might be a bit quiter, and if (when) I need some kick to get out of trouble (often) the power will be there.

TP 2408-21's are a bit less expensive, and the ESC being smaller (18a instead of 32a) will be less costly...

You mentioned more dihedral for stability - is that a suggestion to increase what is there, or just a general statement?

Tom in St. Louis
Tom.... Take a look at this one too. Kendall knows how to build an ap plane for sure and it is at 60". Bob
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1017445
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Old Mar 22, 2009, 10:53 PM
Postcards From The Purple Edge
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United States, OK, Sand Springs
Joined May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamenator
Tom.... Take a look at this one too. Kendall knows how to build an ap plane for sure and it is at 60". Bob
He's talking about the BBAP-FPV, Tom. It's not a twin, but it is a larger Tuffy-wannabe-sorta-thing. I haven't finished the plans yet. Still playing with the thrust angles and such to try and smooth out the pitch response to throttle transitions, but it's a nice, stable platform.

kendall
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Old Mar 22, 2009, 11:08 PM
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Albany, Or
Joined Jan 2009
162 Posts
The wind died down this evening and I managed a short maiden flight. It flew but I wasn't able to do much because the motor is very weak. Its a new motor and I have a feeling its a dud. There is far too much vibration being generated at higher speeds. It should be more than enough to power this plane.
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Old Mar 22, 2009, 11:15 PM
Geaux Saints
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Grafton, Il
Joined Nov 2007
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It could be an out of balance prop.

Try a different prop if you haven't already. One that works on a different motor. It could even be a smaller prop.
A known good prop vibrates it is the motor then.
Mike
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Old Mar 23, 2009, 08:29 AM
Registered User
Raleigh, NC
Joined Aug 2003
81 Posts
Tuffy is Toughy

I maidened on Sunday - it was a perfect day - winds were a bit gusty but usually less than 5mph.

I was at my friends farm who is also trying to get back into flying.

Launching the Tuffy was a bit odd because it seems like the motor was pushing down but I tossed it a bit higher and off she went. I had plenty of power and she climbed like a rocket. Throttling down to about 25% she was level and I really didn't have to add any trim at all.

After landing I told my friend that we should pop his motor on it and see if he could fly it. A few minutes of hacking and hot glue and we had his older GWS brushed motor all set.

My friend had flown 2-3 years ago and had limited success so he was really learning all over again and even with the slight wind I thought he did pretty good! He managed to hit a tree once , and did a few straight down crashes but other than a bit of wing and nose damage the plane was still flyable!!

I didn't do the bamboo skewers and the nose began to crumple a bit but I added a few bits of foam and we kept going. At the end of the day he was able to do 5-6 minutes of good, under control flying and even managed to do a nice decent landing at the end.

Overall I'm very impressed. I took some more 2" foam and plan to start working this week on building another Tuffy for myself probably incorporating some of Jackerbes building ideas as well.

This is my second Tony design plane I've built and so far he's 2 for 2!!!

Jim
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Old Mar 23, 2009, 09:06 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,108 Posts
Lowflyer52 wrote:

"..It flew but I wasn't able to do much because the motor is very weak. Its a new motor and I have a feeling its a dud..."

What motor, ESC, and battery are you using? I have heard of people getting a lemon on a new motor. Will it spin up to full RPM smoothly without a prop on it? And is there any slop or play in the bell of the motor if you move it around?

Jack
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Old Mar 23, 2009, 09:20 AM
Registered User
Raleigh, NC
Joined Aug 2003
81 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowflyer52
I removed all the film from the FFF because I knew I would be covering it in packing tape.
Awesome tape job!! I need to get some of that

Like the taper and the servos mounted from the bottom - that was one issue I had with mine - bit difficult to adjust sunk deep in the body.

Jim
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Old Mar 23, 2009, 09:24 AM
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Northern Nevada
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrumb
Awesome tape job!! I need to get some of that

Like the taper and the servos mounted from the bottom - that was one issue I had with mine - bit difficult to adjust sunk deep in the body.

Jim
I like to sink my servos into the monobloc and hold in place with hot glue. I melt out the servo cavity with and old soldering iron I use for the purpose. It's quick and easy, just go slow and don't over do it. Bob
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Old Mar 23, 2009, 09:26 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,108 Posts
Crumb,

Congratulations! Another successful maiden!

It's great to hear that it went that well. And that we've got some more testimonials for another Tony65x55 design.

I mentioned that I am not impressed with the amount of rigidity that is in that monobloc. And the foam's sort of crumbly nature. I did not use the skewers because I left the nose uncut except for the area hollowed out for the battery.

I know you have a more hollow, built up, fuselage with blocks on the nose and under the wing. That is more similar to the way the Blu-Baby was built. The single layer FFF sides on the Blu-Baby, where the monobloc ended, was where I kept breaking mine until I went to the Industrial Strength Blu-Baby design and ran a CF arrow shaft through multiple monoblocs and tied them all together with PU glue. That solved the problem with side whips cracking the fuselage sides and nose impacts crumpling them.

Now that I have the Tuffy finished and know where all the parts are, I was toying with the idea of "spearing" the fuselage from the nose back up towards the receiver box at a slight angle with a CF arrow shaft and gluing that in place with PU.

I have an arrow shaft that I cut saw teeth (^^^) into the end of and that chucked up in a drill motor does a nice job on drilling deep holes in foam if you stop and clear the swarf out every inch or two.

But I'm going to maiden mine before I do anything more to it. I did make a landing gear for it yesterday. I'll have some details on that posted later today.

Jack
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Old Mar 23, 2009, 10:30 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,108 Posts
Tuffy - The Landing Gear Build, Part One of Two Parts

This is a time honored design for a landing gear, I do not take credit for inventing it. It dates back to the 40's or 50's and has been seen and described in many other threads here in the past. I'm just sharing my build of it.

The landing gear consists of three parts, a foam collar, a plywood shoe, and the wire axle itself.

The collar is really optional, if you prefer the "U" shape can be bent to the width of the fuselage without the collar for a more narrow setup. And the shoe can just rest directly on the bottom of the fuselage.

The landing gear collar is a "U" shaped piece of foam that will wrap about the fuselage directly below the wing hold down dowels. It protects the fuselage sides and bottom against chafing by the landing gear when it is mounted.

01 - Cut a piece of FFF 2-1/4" x 7-1/8". Mark two lines 2" apart (the width across the fuselage) so they are centered on the long dimension.

02 - With the plastic side down, cut shallow (not through to the plastic on the other side) 45 degrees bevels along both sides of the lines so that the two end pieces can be folded up to form the "U" shaped collar.

03 - On the plastic covered side, bevel the edges 45 degrees on all for sides.

04 - The folded bevels and beveled edges are seen here, this is the way it will look fitted around the fuselage.

05, 06 - Cover the plastic covered side with colored package sealing tape.

07 - The collar is seen fitted to the fuselage. It will be held in place by friction and the landing gear itrself.

08 - The landing gear shoe fits up against the collar on the bottom of the fuselage and has a channel that locates and restrains the axle. At the same time it serves as a pivot point so the wheels and axle can rotate to absorb landing shocks.

Cut a piece of 2-1/4" x 2-1/2" 3/32" birch plywood. Cut two popsicle sticks to 2-1/4" leng and epoxy them across the 2-1/4" width. Leaving a gap between them that will accept the wire used for the landing gear (I used .078" or 5/64" piano wire for mine).

Then file or sand two rounded grooves in the ends of the gaps between the popsicle sticks. The landing gear uprights will go up through those grooves and along the fuselage sides.

09 - The other side of the shoe has three 3M Command Poster Strips on it. These are double sided adhesive strips that will keep the shoe from sliding on the collar. Once the collar and shoe have been put together, you can leave them that way for storage or transport off of the plane.

Next, bend the one piece landing gear and wheel axles from a piece of .078" or 5/64" piano wire. A piece of wire 18" or longer is needed.

10 - I use a vise and short length of 1/4" O.D. steel brake line tubing for a bending tool. That tool, along with the vise, will give you full control of the bend points. If you don't have a vise, a pair of Vise-Grip pliers will work to hold the wire as it is bent. You can get the brake line tubing from the scrap barrel at a friendly brake shop or buy a short length at an auto parts store. Cut the end of the tube square and round the sharp edges with a file. You'll treasure this tool once you have used it.

First bend the "U" shape that will wrap across the bottom and up the sides of the fuselage.

11 - Lay out a 20"long piece of masking tape sticky side up, lay the wire centered on it, fold the tape in half around the wire. Make a mark on the masking tape at the center of the wire. Then make two marks 1-3/16" inches to each side of the center mark. The resulting 2-3/8" width represents the width of the fuselage with the landing gear collar wrapped around it.

12 - Clamp the wire in the vise with the red mark even with the end of the vise jaw. Slide the bending tool over the wire and masking tape and into contact with the vise jaw. The bend the wire to one side, keeping it horizontal, until it is about a 90 degree bend. It will spring back slightly.

13 - Slide the bending tool off and finish the bend by hitting it gently at the bend point a couple of times with a soft hammer. That will produce a nice right angle bend.

14 - Lay the right angle bend on top of the vise jaws and put the other red mark even with the end of the jaw. Use the bending tool to bend the wire to form the "U". The wire is clamped at a slight downward angle because the previous bend is on top of the jaws, keeping the bend level and on the same plane as the first bend.

15 - The finished "U" bend is seen. The wire should lay flat on the bench. If necessary, bend one wire up or down until the "U" lays flat and bend the side to get it squared away.

To be continued...

Jack
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Old Mar 23, 2009, 10:52 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,108 Posts
Tuffy - The Landing Gear Build, Part Two of Two Parts

16 - Measure 2" up from the bottom of the "U" on both sided and make a mark. The 2" distance is the distance that the landing gear will extend up along the collar on the fuselage sides.

18 - Clamp the wire in the vise even with the red mark and make a 90 degree bend to the outside of the "U". Keep the bend on a flat plane with the previous bends. The bend is just getting started as seen here.

19 - End the bend when the tool hits the vise jaw. Hit it with the soft hammer to to make it a square bend.

20 - This is the bend after being hit with the hammer.

21 - Bend the other side of the "U" outward at the 2" mark and square it. It should give you a square "U" as seen here.

22 - Two small pieces of metal are needed to make the doubled back bends. I'm using two pieces of 1/4" flat bar here. The wire is clamped between the bars, even with the top of the vise jaws, and up against the of the flat bar.

23 - The bar is bent down to form the doubled back bend. Bend it until the up and back runs are near to parallel. No hammer blows are needed here.

24 - Repeat for the other side of the landing gear.

25 - I remove the masking tape now and you should have the wire seen here. Some judicious bending, with or without clamping it down, may be needed to get the wire laying flat on top of the bench.

26 - Close and narrow the double back bends by crushing them shut a little bit in the vise jaws. Just crush them a little and relaw the jaws, stop when the two wires are parallel.

27 - The collar, shoe, and wire are test fitted on the fuselage. The two doubled back bends should just touch or apply light pressure on the collar on both sides. A rubber band going from the dowel, across the doubled back bend, and return to the dowel, is what will hold the gear in place. The size number of rubber bands and number of wraps taken can be varied to control the amount of restraining force on the landing gear.

28 - The axle bends are made 1-1/2" below the bottom of the fuselage. That is where the steel rule is seen laying across the wire. The plans also show the wheels as being about 10" apart but they are only 6" apart as seen here.

29 - I changed the splay or angle of the outward bends up near the double back bends so spread the two legs a little wider apart. I settled on about 8" of splay on a TLAR basis. Then I laid the rule across them, 1-1/2" below the fuselage and parallel with the bottom of the "U" bend, and marked the points where the wheel axles would be bent.

30 - The wheel axle bends were made at the marks. The were bent a little at a time until they formed a straight line when laid across the rule. The finished axle is seen with the wheels temporarily mounted.

31- And the finished landing gear mounted on the Tuffy. I still have to add some wheel retaining collars. Also the wheels are a loose fit (they have 5/32" holes, the axle it 5/64" DIA.) so I'll add some bushings to take up the play.

I used a pair of 2" foam tired wheels I found at the LHS (King's Mountain RC in Orrington, ME, tell Warren Jack sent you). The wheels were in the clearance bin and are not marked with a brand. They weigh 6 grams each and the completed landing gear assembly (with collar and shoe) weighs 37 grams.

Jack
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