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Old Apr 06, 2010, 06:42 AM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
donjiskra's Avatar
Darien,IL,USA
Joined Jul 2000
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byrocat,
I had thought about removing the blind nuts, but figured that it was easier to elongate the holes in the X mount. It simplified the installation.
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Old Apr 07, 2010, 11:55 AM
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Aurora, Ontario, Canada
Joined Mar 2002
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Ah, but there's not enough "meat" in the X-mount to elongate those holes. Doing it on the wood mount means that I have to elongate on the diagonal twoard the center of the mount, rather than towards the outside of the X-mount.

Jeweler's screwdriver set largest Phillips fits just inside the top of the nut. One or two sharp smacks with a pair of pliers and nut pops loose.

Didn't have enough time this week to do the job -- last night was the meeting the the Humber Valley Flyers (www.hvrcf.org) with the presentation to Graeme Mears of his MAAC Hall of Fame plaque, followed by his discussion of his latest F-16 (Aggressor squadron markings) and what it takes to be a perfect score for static judging in scale.

Tonight will be spent off-loading the pictures and then forwarding them to the MAAC President and the Zone Director (our equivalent to the AMA VP), plus shipping off a set of anime that I just sold on eBay.
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Old Apr 07, 2010, 11:59 AM
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Aurora, Ontario, Canada
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Whoops!

Forgot to mention that the box containing my replacement canopy arrived. I checked it out and found that the back left corner had a crack running on the diagonal (making the corner of the caopy into a triangle. Flushed the area with SuperPhatic glue and will doubole-check it tonight for any added work.

Total length of the crack is about 1/3rd of an inch (one CM for the metric types).

Kudos to GP for being so kind to simply fire off a replacement without requiring anything other than a note from me. Also, didn't ask for the old canopy to be sent back.
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Old Apr 08, 2010, 06:47 AM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
donjiskra's Avatar
Darien,IL,USA
Joined Jul 2000
1,570 Posts
Guys,
I made an interesting discovery.
My Escapade EP (electric power) Turnigy 42-50 900kv motor weighs 8 ounces
It is very tail heavy and needs 7-8 ounces weight for proper balance. That seemed like a lot of weight, until I made a comparison

A .40 size Glow Engine, (Thunder Tiger),A with a muffler weighs 17.5 ounces.
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Last edited by donjiskra; Apr 08, 2010 at 07:05 AM. Reason: revise information
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 05:38 PM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
donjiskra's Avatar
Darien,IL,USA
Joined Jul 2000
1,570 Posts
Escapade EP balance weight

Here's a shot of the 9 ounces of lead weight added to equal the weight of a .40 size glow engine with a muffler.
Now I can move the lipo batteries fore or aft for flight balancing
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Last edited by donjiskra; Apr 10, 2010 at 12:13 PM.
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Old Apr 11, 2010, 02:33 PM
"That's too low!"
Kokomo, IN
Joined Jan 2009
273 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by donjiskra View Post
Here's a shot of the 9 ounces of lead weight added to equal the weight of a .40 size glow engine with a muffler.
Now I can move the lipo batteries fore or aft for flight balancing
What is the total weight, ready to fly?
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 06:27 AM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
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Darien,IL,USA
Joined Jul 2000
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flylower,
The AUW:
with a 3s4400 li-po (11 ounces), is 5.1 lbs (82 ounces). 82 watts/lb Wing Loading=24.4
with a 4s4400 li-po (17 ounces), is 5.5 lbs (88 ounces). 146 watts/lb Wing loading=26.2

Great Planes states the AUW as 5 to 5.5 pounds. So the extra lead weight added to equal a .40 size engine brings it well within their specs.

Without batteries the weight is 4.43lbs (71 ounces)

The E-Calf performace data now revised:
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Last edited by donjiskra; Apr 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM. Reason: insert E-Calf perfomance data
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 12:00 PM
"That's too low!"
Kokomo, IN
Joined Jan 2009
273 Posts
donjiskra,

Just doesn't seem right to add that much weight to a small plane. Seems there should be a better way of balancing it. Maybe moving the batteries as far forward as possible, or maybe even the motor. I would probably have gone with a bigger motor. More power is always more fun for me!

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Old Apr 12, 2010, 01:18 PM
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Aurora, Ontario, Canada
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Flylower, it may be correct. However, my gut feel is that he should not be comparing the motor to the IC weight, but to the relevant Rimfire. The design was set up for a .45IC or a Rimfire.

Another factor might be the energy-density possible with the current generation of lipos, which means lighter batteries for the same MAH rating.

I do know then when I converted a .45 ARF trainer (Lanier Explorer), I wound up having to use 19 ounces of lead in the cheeks of the motor compartment to get a balance, that being the weight difference between an OS Max .45 and the AXI 2826/10. I'd worked that number out by the simple expedient ofusing the published specs for the two and then balancing the plane with loose lead weights for the weight ifference. Turned out that I didn't have to add any additional weight to balance.

My current concern is that the added weight will lever the motor mount out of the firewall. on a heavcy landing.

HOWEVER, we should wait until donjiskra has actually balanced the plane to see if that amount is needed or not.
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 02:11 PM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
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Darien,IL,USA
Joined Jul 2000
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Guys, thanks for your concerns and comments.
The weight I installed is correct to get a balance point as defined by Great Planes. The total AUW is correct according to their specs. So if she balances as they require, then she will fly properly.
Don

BTW, Great Planes recommended OS 55AX ABL engine with muffler, weighs 14.3 ounces
or their recommended the OS 56 FS (4 stroke) weighs 16.26 ounces with muffler
My installed AXI 2820/16 motor weighs 8 ounces, hence the added weight was necessary.
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Last edited by donjiskra; Apr 13, 2010 at 06:33 AM. Reason: update weight issue
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Old Apr 13, 2010, 09:26 AM
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Joined Apr 2010
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Escapade great

This is a super flyer. Very stable for its size. I put a .46 2 stroke on it. Good size motor for plane. Very aerobatic. Landing easy ( It is not a trainer when landing ) Watch the bunny hops.
Building. No trouble putting wing together. I glued the wing together. Tail was very easy also. I glued all that together. Bolt on is ok. But in the tough world of flying. Glue is my way to go. Tail wheel. The collor fit great. Maybe they used the wrong one. I used a smal washer sodered on to hold the tail wheel on. Covering had to be gone over. Wheel pant, not for grass.
Good job Great Planes
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Old May 13, 2010, 07:05 AM
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South Africa, WC, Cape Town
Joined Dec 2009
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On the subject of balance. I've fitted the OS Max .46 AX wit 3070 muffler and my Escapade comes in very tail heavy.
I know the .46 AX is lighter compared to previous O.S. .46 engines but I'm looking at needing around 150-170gram or 6ounces of balast!!d

...and I do believe i have fitted everything needed. Theres no spare parts left over in the box

Thinking of fitting the battery on top of the fuel tank or immediately behind it.
Been advised against spinner weights. any other ideas? Maybe bolting some weight under the engine? good or bad?
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Old May 13, 2010, 10:12 AM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Hi Tim
THough its a while since I got oily playing with toy airplanes, I remember the 'short nose syndrome' all too well. My Focker DVIII parasol and Ford Flivver were probably my personal pinnacles here, but they had excuses

Idle thoughts? A bigger NiMh battery as far up front as you can get it. The larger capacity can't hurt and its useful weight, not just lead. My Flivver had the battery under the engine, but the designer knew enough to build that in from the off

Spinner weights? Yuck, no way. Nothing to stop you looking around for a heavier spinner, but adding weight is sure enough to make any imbalance deadly.

How's about sawing off/removing whatever passes for a cowling, duplicating the firewall in two layers of 1/4" ply and epoxying them to the original firewall, fuel-proof, then replace engine mount and cowling?

Someone should slap the designer around the head until he/she promises to learn how to do it better.

If I suggested sawing the nose off and replacing it with one two inches longer, I'd probably be accused of trolling by suggesting that ready-mades are less than perfect In the meantime, thanks for all the posts - every so often, I have an urge to splurge and this sort of thread brings me back to reality

D
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Old May 13, 2010, 10:29 AM
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Aurora, Ontario, Canada
Joined Mar 2002
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Put some tire weights on top of the cowling to see how much you need to adjust the balance by.

A simple solution is to make the same wieght in lead into a plate using a couple/three cans of Play-Do to make a melting form for the lead. If you've got a torch-based weed killer (http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/p...300,44822&ap=1), this does a super job of hardening the plastercine while melting the lead.

Drill out a couple of holes to fit the mount, and put it on using some longer hardened-steel bolts.

I fly the electric version and I'm just about ready to try balancing it. Last conversion from an engine to a motor (slimer to electric) took 19 ounces of lead. That's the weight difference between an OS MAX .46 and an AXI 2826/10.
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Old May 13, 2010, 02:33 PM
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Joined Oct 2006
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Thought I'd jump in on this discussion. I have posted previously in the other escapade thread in this section. I own 2 escapades, one with an evolution 46 and one with a BP 3520-6 motor and a BP 60amp esc. The glow model has the battery pack (4s 2450 nimh) mounted under the engine. It required an additional 2 oz ( 3 fender washers ) to balance on the specs. The electric has the esc mounted under the motor mount. No additional weight was needed, since I fly with 6s A123 batteries forward against the firewall, and a receiver pack ( 4s 650 nimh) mounted under the the battery mount. I find the performance of the 2 to be virtually the same.
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