HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
View Poll Results: Are you interested in a Multiplex Sonic Liner clone?
I'd strongly consider buying one 76 54.68%
I would possibly consider buying one 31 22.30%
no interest 29 20.86%
other thoughts- explain in your post 3 2.16%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
...
Only in the USA there seems to exist "magic tricks" to turn ordinary cars into trucks, by adding 4-wheel drive or even turning sub-compact cars into trucks :

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/m...-a-%22truck%22

Jürgen

P.S.: Jeep Cherokee - car or truck?
Your implication is actually correct here. In the USA we have a tradition of "gaming the system" and finding loopholes in regulations to "forward the cause of capitalism."

Over the recent decades, our government has been passing regulations aimed at reducing pollution (something Euro nations are far behind on) and fuel consumption but applying these laws differently to "cars" and "trucks." Sadly, Plato isn't here to illuminate the immutable form of a "truck" so there has been some gamesmanship on this topic.

Regardless, there are typically more lenient regulations applied to trucks and there is an advantage to having them classified that way rather than as a car. This favorably skews the CAFE (corporate average fuel efficiency) ratings. The PT Cruiser is a classic example of a car classified as a truck.

"Sport utility vehicles" like the Cherokee are sometimes classified as cars (which is silly) but Ford F-150s are never classified as a car, even when they're used as such. Can you remind us how this relates to the topic again?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
...
Over the recent decades, our government has been passing regulations aimed at reducing pollution (something Euro nations are far behind on) and fuel consumption but applying these laws differently to "cars" and "trucks." ...
Sometimes I wonder where you get your information from .

You may want to have a little read:

http://www.gizmag.com/us-european-ja...llution/15485/

http://www.eea.europa.eu/publication...sions-from-new

Jürgen
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Sometimes I wonder where you get your information from .

You may want to have a little read:

http://www.gizmag.com/us-european-ja...llution/15485/

http://www.eea.europa.eu/publication...sions-from-new

Jürgen
CO2 emissions restrictions are voluntary in the EU as I understand it. The economic pressure on more efficient vehicles (your fuel is much more expensive than ours) and logistical problems of owning a larger vehicle on cramped/old roads mean that people are more likely to drive smaller cars or diesels which produce less CO2.

We regulate other pollutants much more strictly which greatly impacts the use of efficient diesel powered vehicles. Europe is lagging in this regard.


And then there's another challenge for diesels--stricter U.S. emission regulations. The 50-state light-duty vehicle limit for emissions of nitrogen oxides is 0.07 grams per mile. In Western Europe, the limit is 0.29. Reducing NOx to nitrogen and oxygen is much harder with a diesel engine because the exhaust is typically cooler and contains less oxygen compared to a gas engine. To meet U.S. regulations, diesel engines are required to use complicated--and expensive--high-pressure fuel injection and after-treatment systems that in some cases inject an aqueous urea solution to handle the NOx. The added expense of course means an even longer payback period for the consumer.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...diesel/4330313
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:37 AM
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Yes... from Wikipedia:

Within the European Union, road transport is responsible for about 20% of all CO2 emissions, with passenger cars contributing about 12%.[1]

The target fixed at Kyoto Protocol was an 8% reduction of emissions in all sectors of the economy compared to 1990 levels by 2008-2012.
Relative CO2 emissions from transport have risen rapidly in recent years, from 21% of the total in 1990 to 28% in 2004,[1][2][3] but currently there are no standards for limits on CO2 emissions from vehicles.
EU transport emissions of CO2 currently account for about 3.5% of total global CO2 emissions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...sion_standards
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:38 AM
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Again, how does this relate to why you think the Sonic Liner shouldn't be reproduced?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Obake View Post
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Myself, I hope HobbyKing or anothe vendor produces the Sonicliner. I would buy one if it had the right price margin und design. Actually, to be most honest, I would love to have one of these in fiberglass but I expect that most would prefer foam.
...
So we can count one of the "no" votes into the "I'd consider buying one" column?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
Yes... from Wikipedia:
...
Relative CO2 emissions from transport have risen rapidly in recent years, from 21% of the total in 1990 to 28% in 2004,[1][2][3] but currently there are no standards for limits on CO2 emissions from vehicles.
EU transport emissions of CO2 currently account for about 3.5% of total global CO2 emissions.[/I]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...sion_standards
In case you missed it ... check on top:
Quote:
This article has multiple issues ...
Of course there are strict limits for emissions. All new cars sold after Sept. 2009 need to comply with Euro 5 and many cars are running well below those limits.

Please note, that the test conditions in Europe differ from the US tests and that the "0.07 grams per mile figure" is a fleet average figure (less difficult to achieve, when you hardly got any diesel cars in your fleet ).

What has all that got to do with the Sonicliner? Nothing really, it is just a mere response to some strange "accusations".

Jürgen
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Well, if it was about English language, we would not have this discussion, because in England we have cars and lorries and a pickup truck would not pass as a lorry.

Only in the USA there seems to exist "magic tricks" to turn ordinary cars into trucks, by adding 4-wheel drive or even turning sub-compact cars into trucks :



Jürgen

P.S.: Jeep Cherokee - car or truck?
http://www.addisonauto.com/English/S...ightening.html

For clarification purposes,regardless what you guys in Euroland call it ,here in the USA whether its a "car" or "truck" depends largely on the chassis/frame.If its of unibody construction(frame and body combined into one unit) its a "car" ,if it has a body on frame (typically a "ladder" frame) its a "truck".Hopely this ends the discussion.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 07:22 PM
Lou
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
So we can count one of the "no" votes into the "I'd consider buying one" column?
You may place it in what ever column you wish, but it will not matter. Manufacturers will look at all of these numbers as zero. Particulary the last 3 options as those are not firm commentments. Of course the first option really is not either. 70 total votes out of how many modelers on this planet is likely not enough to convince HK or others to produce this plane.

As for the English language, well its roots are Germanic.

At post #266 this thread had a good chance to start to be back on track. There was a nice graceful exit for all. It seems that again, you must get the last word in. Why not leave well enough alone?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Obake View Post

As for the English language, well its roots are Germanic.
http://randomhistory.com/1-50/023english.html
Roots yes,...added to ,modified,changed so many times that many of the original meanings have been lost and/or replaced with something else.I believe its the height of arrogance that someone who speaks english as a second language has the audacity to explain to those of us that speak english as our first language what the definitions of our words and language usuage are.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 10:08 PM
Lou
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Originally Posted by daddiozz View Post
http://randomhistory.com/1-50/023english.html
Roots yes,...added to ,modified,changed so many times that many of the original meanings have been lost and/or replaced with something else.I believe its the height of arrogance that someone who speaks english as a second language has the audacity to explain to those of us that speak english as our first language what the definitions of our words and language usuage are.
Perhaps.

Alas, it seems that this conversation has become more about getting the last word in, does it not? Now, you want the last word in. Would you not like for the thread to come back on topic?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 10:30 PM
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At post #266 this thread had a good chance to start to be back on track. There was a nice graceful exit for all. It seems that again, you must get the last word in. Why not leave well enough alone?
Wait. I am confused. So you're being critical of Jurgen? so maybe you're not the same person!

I understand what happened here. Multiplex planes are GERMAN. You are German. Therefore, you had to be sure that we all knew that you were an authority on these planes. We got it.

I think that a Sonic Liner clone would sell well for Hobbyking.. but I never believed that this thread would be the thing to convince a company to produce them. I merely thought it would be fun to talk about.

I didn't plan to be subjected to anti-American/vaguely racist insults and a never ending stream of ego driven contrarianism.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:32 AM
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Just a thought .Has anyone considered the possibility of perhaps putting together a pettition to MPX imploring them to bring back the SL and perhaps a few other "classic" designs ?Updated of course ,perhaps a special limited edition?Personally I'd be willing to pay upwards of $300-500 US for a NIB SL including shipping.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MRGTX View Post
Wait. I am confused. So you're being critical of Jurgen? so maybe you're not the same person!
...
Obviously the subject of this thread is no longer of interest. Everything important (and less important) has been said. Now we are down to accusations about using a false identity? How low can you go?

Jürgen
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by daddiozz View Post
Really? only in the USA?
http://www.pickuptrucksdirect.co.uk/
I was referring to "transformations" like this:

Quote:
... put 4-wheel drive (4WD) on a CRV and it gets classified as a “non-passenger vehicle,” or truck, while the 2-wheel drive (2WD) version is a “passenger vehicle,” or car under federal fuel efficiency and global warming pollution standards.
Jürgen
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