Brushless E-flite Blade CX Coaxial Project

copperclad · Dec 01, 2005, 07:00 PM

hi

i was at the hobby shop today and saw how inexpensive the parts were for this new coaxial , and it took me about ten minutes to go " WOW what a great brushless heli this would make!!!

"
well adding up just the parts to get it to fly , no body parts , no 4 n 1 , no stock motors , just the chassis and drivetrain , comes out to about $90.00 and i have to get two CC P-10's and a couple of brushless motors for about another $170 , then add a battery , i have already , and an RX i have , yup got the servos , oops can't forget a rate gyro

, and use my JR 8103 to mix and i'm sold

, so i bought the list below and i'm ordering the esc's and motors , and i'll post more here as it comes together , dana

List of parts

Bearing 2x6x3mm (2): BCP,BCX [EFLH1121] Our Price: $5.99

Inner Shaft with Hub & Main Gear Set:BCX [EFLH1212] Our Price: $8.99

Outer Shaft & Main Gear Set:BCX [EFLH1213] Our Price: $8.99

Shaft Retaining Collar Set:BCX [EFLH1214] Our Price: $4.99

Bearing 4x8x3mm (2):BCX [EFLH1215] Our Price: $6.99

Swashplate Set:BCX [EFLH1216] Our Price: $6.99

Lower Rotor Head & Linkage Set:BCX [EFLH1217] Our Price: $5.99

Stabilizer Flybar Set:BCX [EFLH1219] Our Price: $6.99

Lower Main Blade Set (2 pr):BCX [EFLH1220] Our Price: $3.99

Upper Main Blade Set (2 pr):BCX [EFLH1221] Our Price: $3.99

Landing Skid Set:BCX [EFLH1222] Our Price: $3.99

Main Frame Set:BCX [EFLH1224] Our Price: $7.99

Battery Support Set:BCX [EFLH1223] Our Price: $5.99

update: the pictures below are of the finished heli , brendin has had a great idea of mounting the motors inline front to back with the rear motor being behind the mast , i am building one of darthdrk's KA-52 bodies and will probably try Brendins idea , AUW is 204 grams with an 1100mah battery

GaryL · Dec 01, 2005, 07:35 PM

copperclad what ya trying to do to me

I have not got the SB flying as yet, just got a LAMA 2 and had it up untill 2nd flight when I came in to hard and busted the tail boom

and now you start another project with a BCX

Keep us posted looks like I will be going fer a BCX

GaryL

dacaur · Dec 01, 2005, 07:46 PM

woa thats too cool, cant wait to see how this turns out!!!

Ziess · Dec 07, 2005, 08:33 PM

Clad-
You beat me to it! Dang. I was wondering how it would work out and how it'll fly. Good Luck bud and keep us updated often.

Which Brushless motors are you using and how much are they?
Also, I'm not sure I understand how the gyro can be incorporated?

copperclad · Dec 10, 2005, 06:13 PM

hi
as you can see i have had a little change in plans

, i have had all the parts with the exception of the screw packet , they sell all the extra parts sans screws and bundle all of them in a single packet for $3.95 , and of course it's on backorder till mid january

, so i spent a few days scrounging around and found out i could get most but not all in a shogun screw kit

, i was planning on useing Feigao brushless motors but of course they don't come with mounting screws either and i only have two that fit

, so in order to get the machine in the air i am running some himax 2015's i have with CC-10's , haven't flown it yet just got the motors and servos mounted today , still need to solder in the esc's and the gyro should be here monday , but i thought i would post some pictures , dana

PS: you can see in the pictures i shortened the stabilizer bar and used LAMA paddles

Vario3 · Dec 10, 2005, 06:33 PM

WOW! Can't wait to hear the flight report.

dacaur · Dec 10, 2005, 06:38 PM

Awsome, what gyro are you going to use?

For fiago screws, here you go http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=1442

copperclad · Dec 10, 2005, 06:51 PM

hi dacaur
thanks for the link and thanks Vario3 , those are tiny little screws and i think the feigao motors would be interesting to try , i found GWS P-03's on sale for $32.00 a pop at http://www.edogfight.com/
i think when a coaxial is setup right there isn't much problem with yaw as both rotors cancel each other out and since the are the same size it's a 1 to 1 ratio , unlike a conventional heli with a small rotor at the end of the tail boom , i know a HH would do a better job , but i have a real cheap streak in me

, thanks again , dana

Xnaron · Dec 10, 2005, 10:54 PM

I bought a second blade CX today...the hobby shops around here don't have any parts yet. This is such a fun little heli. I think I'll build a brushless one out of my second one. How are you planning to hook up the gyro to the heli? The gyro on the stock CX controls the speed of both rotors. How are you going to do this on your brushless CX?

Thanks,
Brendin

Xnaron · Dec 10, 2005, 11:22 PM

I think to use one gyro in a brushless setup with the blade cx you would need some type of external mixer. I don't see how it could be done with radio mixing alone. You could do a throttle and rudder mix but how would you tie in the output of the gyro? The gyro can control only one motor.

External Mixer:

Inputs:
- rudder and throttle

Outputs:
- top rotor motor output
- bottom rotor output

Mix Function:
While rudder is neutral both top and bottom rotors would be running at the same speed. When rudder is moved left or right the bottom and top rotors would increase and decrease speeds to turn the craft left or right.

The gyro would be in-line between the receiver and the mixer.

dangerspey · Dec 10, 2005, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperclad

hi
and used LAMA paddles

I'd like to find some Lama paddles! When I was a kid one spat right in my face, actually I'd like to use a bat... ya that would be better...

LAMAS!!!

Oh ya copperclad did those Himaxx motors bolt right in? I noticed there is no gear mesh adjustment in the stock CX, I can hear my gears lashing a litlle bit in flight.

Cable Guy · Dec 10, 2005, 11:51 PM

How do you make the motors counter rotate?

Do the stock pinions fit the motors?

What exactly will the advantage be?

What is the estimated finished price excluding radio?

BTW the Hirobo paddles make all the difference in the smoothness of flight on the stock unit, but the BX flybar doesn't line the up "flat". After a bit of twisting they fit pretty good.

Bert

PS: hurry up!!!

Xnaron · Dec 10, 2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cable Guy

How do you make the motors counter rotate?

Do the stock pinions fit the motors?

What exactly will the advantage be?

What is the estimated finished price excluding radio?

BTW the Hirobo paddles make all the difference in the smoothness of flight on the stock unit, but the BX flybar doesn't line the up "flat". After a bit of twisting they fit pretty good.

Bert

PS: hurry up!!!

You can program the Phoenix 10 speed control to determine the direction the motor rotates. The advantage of the brushless setup would be that the more powerfull motors wouldn't wear out and need to be replaced and that the better quality gyro would eliminate drift. I would use a heading hold gyro in mine. I've got a really light weight heading hold gyro that I could use in mine.

Brendin

Rooney7783 · Dec 11, 2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cable Guy

BTW the Hirobo paddles make all the difference in the smoothness of flight on the stock unit, but the BX flybar doesn't line the up "flat". After a bit of twisting they fit pretty good.

Bert

PS: hurry up!!!

Could the BCP paddles be used at all or are they too big?

Xnaron · Dec 11, 2005, 12:18 AM

Miami Mike suggested to me that an elevon mixer might work...

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXELT4&P=7
http://www.bill-tek.com/Elevon.htm

I think it would probably work well. It has two inputs one for aileron and one for elevator and has two outputs for the two elevon servos. I see the connection as follows

Receiver Rudder output > Gyro > Mixer (aileron input)
Receiver Throttle output > Mixer (elevator input)

The mixer outputs would be connected to the two speed controls.

I am going to head to the hobby shops tomorrow to see if I can find an elevon mixer.

Brendin

Dec 01, 2005, 07:00 PM	#1
copperclad Coaxially Fixated Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rochester N.Y. Posts: 1,729	Brushless E-flite Blade CX Coaxial Project hi i was at the hobby shop today and saw how inexpensive the parts were for this new coaxial , and it took me about ten minutes to go " WOW what a great brushless heli this would make!!! " well adding up just the parts to get it to fly , no body parts , no 4 n 1 , no stock motors , just the chassis and drivetrain , comes out to about $90.00 and i have to get two CC P-10's and a couple of brushless motors for about another $170 , then add a battery , i have already , and an RX i have , yup got the servos , oops can't forget a rate gyro , and use my JR 8103 to mix and i'm sold , so i bought the list below and i'm ordering the esc's and motors , and i'll post more here as it comes together , dana List of parts Bearing 2x6x3mm (2): BCP,BCX [EFLH1121] Our Price: $5.99 Inner Shaft with Hub & Main Gear Set:BCX [EFLH1212] Our Price: $8.99 Outer Shaft & Main Gear Set:BCX [EFLH1213] Our Price: $8.99 Shaft Retaining Collar Set:BCX [EFLH1214] Our Price: $4.99 Bearing 4x8x3mm (2):BCX [EFLH1215] Our Price: $6.99 Swashplate Set:BCX [EFLH1216] Our Price: $6.99 Lower Rotor Head & Linkage Set:BCX [EFLH1217] Our Price: $5.99 Stabilizer Flybar Set:BCX [EFLH1219] Our Price: $6.99 Lower Main Blade Set (2 pr):BCX [EFLH1220] Our Price: $3.99 Upper Main Blade Set (2 pr):BCX [EFLH1221] Our Price: $3.99 Landing Skid Set:BCX [EFLH1222] Our Price: $3.99 Main Frame Set:BCX [EFLH1224] Our Price: $7.99 Battery Support Set:BCX [EFLH1223] Our Price: $5.99 update: the pictures below are of the finished heli , brendin has had a great idea of mounting the motors inline front to back with the rear motor being behind the mast , i am building one of darthdrk's KA-52 bodies and will probably try Brendins idea , AUW is 204 grams with an 1100mah battery Attached Thumbnails 36.2 KB · Views: 2101 36.7 KB · Views: 2326 39.7 KB · Views: 4175 38.2 KB · Views: 3606 Last edited by copperclad; Jan 09, 2006 at 06:47 AM.

Dec 10, 2005, 06:13 PM	#5
copperclad Coaxially Fixated Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rochester N.Y. Posts: 1,729	hi as you can see i have had a little change in plans , i have had all the parts with the exception of the screw packet , they sell all the extra parts sans screws and bundle all of them in a single packet for $3.95 , and of course it's on backorder till mid january , so i spent a few days scrounging around and found out i could get most but not all in a shogun screw kit , i was planning on useing Feigao brushless motors but of course they don't come with mounting screws either and i only have two that fit , so in order to get the machine in the air i am running some himax 2015's i have with CC-10's , haven't flown it yet just got the motors and servos mounted today , still need to solder in the esc's and the gyro should be here monday , but i thought i would post some pictures , dana PS: you can see in the pictures i shortened the stabilizer bar and used LAMA paddles Attached Thumbnails 37.6 KB · Views: 3302 38.0 KB · Views: 2627 37.4 KB · Views: 4401

Dec 10, 2005, 06:51 PM	#8
copperclad Coaxially Fixated Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rochester N.Y. Posts: 1,729	hi dacaur thanks for the link and thanks Vario3 , those are tiny little screws and i think the feigao motors would be interesting to try , i found GWS P-03's on sale for $32.00 a pop at http://www.edogfight.com/ i think when a coaxial is setup right there isn't much problem with yaw as both rotors cancel each other out and since the are the same size it's a 1 to 1 ratio , unlike a conventional heli with a small rotor at the end of the tail boom , i know a HH would do a better job , but i have a real cheap streak in me , thanks again , dana Last edited by copperclad; Dec 10, 2005 at 10:05 PM.

Dec 10, 2005, 11:51 PM	#12
Cable Guy Permanant Fixture Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 1,053	questions questions questions How do you make the motors counter rotate? Do the stock pinions fit the motors? What exactly will the advantage be? What is the estimated finished price excluding radio? BTW the Hirobo paddles make all the difference in the smoothness of flight on the stock unit, but the BX flybar doesn't line the up "flat". After a bit of twisting they fit pretty good. Bert PS: hurry up!!!

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Dec 01, 2005, 07:35 PM	#2
GaryL Novice Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA OHIO Posts: 435	copperclad what ya trying to do to me I have not got the SB flying as yet, just got a LAMA 2 and had it up untill 2nd flight when I came in to hard and busted the tail boom and now you start another project with a BCX Keep us posted looks like I will be going fer a BCX GaryL

Dec 01, 2005, 07:46 PM	#3
dacaur Heli's rule! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Midvale, Utah, USA Posts: 4,465	woa thats too cool, cant wait to see how this turns out!!!

Dec 07, 2005, 08:33 PM	#4
Ziess Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13	Clad- You beat me to it! Dang. I was wondering how it would work out and how it'll fly. Good Luck bud and keep us updated often. Which Brushless motors are you using and how much are they? Also, I'm not sure I understand how the gyro can be incorporated?

Dec 10, 2005, 06:33 PM	#6
Vario3 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Southeast PA Posts: 2,791	WOW! Can't wait to hear the flight report.

Dec 10, 2005, 06:38 PM	#7
dacaur Heli's rule! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Midvale, Utah, USA Posts: 4,465	Awsome, what gyro are you going to use? For fiago screws, here you go http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=1442

Dec 10, 2005, 10:54 PM	#9
Xnaron Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,776	I bought a second blade CX today...the hobby shops around here don't have any parts yet. This is such a fun little heli. I think I'll build a brushless one out of my second one. How are you planning to hook up the gyro to the heli? The gyro on the stock CX controls the speed of both rotors. How are you going to do this on your brushless CX? Thanks, Brendin

Dec 10, 2005, 11:22 PM	#10
Xnaron Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,776	I think to use one gyro in a brushless setup with the blade cx you would need some type of external mixer. I don't see how it could be done with radio mixing alone. You could do a throttle and rudder mix but how would you tie in the output of the gyro? The gyro can control only one motor. External Mixer: Inputs: - rudder and throttle Outputs: - top rotor motor output - bottom rotor output Mix Function: While rudder is neutral both top and bottom rotors would be running at the same speed. When rudder is moved left or right the bottom and top rotors would increase and decrease speeds to turn the craft left or right. The gyro would be in-line between the receiver and the mixer.

Dec 11, 2005, 12:18 AM	#15
Xnaron Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,776	Miami Mike suggested to me that an elevon mixer might work... http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXELT4&P=7 http://www.bill-tek.com/Elevon.htm I think it would probably work well. It has two inputs one for aileron and one for elevator and has two outputs for the two elevon servos. I see the connection as follows Receiver Rudder output > Gyro > Mixer (aileron input) Receiver Throttle output > Mixer (elevator input) The mixer outputs would be connected to the two speed controls. I am going to head to the hobby shops tomorrow to see if I can find an elevon mixer. Brendin